Forum Topic

It's A Bit Late Now Dear *

"Theresa May is to meet MPs to try to find a way forward for Brexit, after her slim victory in the no-confidence vote."  BBC news this morningJ Corbyn has refused to meet May, unless a no deal Brexit is ruled out.  The Daily Mail today calls the leader of the opposition "Wrecker" Corbyn.Well, it's "Wrecker's" job to throw out the humiliated, failed May and her embarrassingly bad government.  -------------- “Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.” – Liam Fox, International Trade Secretary, July 2017.“It was me that got us into this mess, I will get us out of it.” – Theresa May, June 2017, “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” – Michael Gove, Secretary of State for Environment, April 2016.“Within two years – before negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete and therefore before anything material has changed – we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at point of exit.” David Davis, Former Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, July 2016.“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.” John Redwood, Conservative MP, July 2016.“What we’ve got to do as a government and as a parliamentary party is show we are bigger than the sum of our parts. If we take a bit more of that approach – a bit more unity of purpose – we’ll get a great result out of Brexit. We’ll also unite the country.” – Dominic Raab, Departing Brexit Secretary, June 2018.“The Conservative party will ensure that we fulfil our duty in ensuring that stability, so that we can all, as one country go forward together.” – Theresa May, June 2017.* As quipped by a City trader to his screen, when May called for a talks with all parties

John Cameron ● 2856d20 Comments

Oh, where is a memory hole when the Tories really need one?

David Ainsworth ● 2855d

The "Wrecker" failed in booting May out. Not that I have  any time for her but seriously, you'd have Corbyn in the driving seat instead, John?

Lucille Grant ● 2855d

Currently that is the actual choice. Would you choose May then? And a probable No Deal?

David Ainsworth ● 2855d

I am unconvinced by ‘Wrecker”, but wouldn’t hesitate to vote Labour if they would campaign (in a General Election) to stay in Europe. Parties can then put forward their clear position etc etc. I hope that Labour MP’s push this strategy - an election is a sensible way out the mess - caused by May’s arrogance and ineptitude. May is a smug, conceited, disgrace - her government a shambolic disaster.

John Cameron ● 2855d

Problem is with Corbyn in charge of Labour you'll never know if they'll reverse Brexit. Honestly feel if Labour have a different leader this whole position would be so different. I want to stay in Europe but cannot stand Corbyn - if the front bench of labour changed then really think they'd storm any GE.

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2855d

Totally agree

Jane Carter ● 2855d

Corbyn is never going to support any possible Remain outcome. He's been  pro Brexit all along. I cannot see Labour ever campaigning to stay in Europe  (in a GE) while he is Leader - his MPs have an uphill struggle to persuade him otherwise. Brexiters won't vote for him if he changes his stance to Remain either!I don't think he's ever changed his position on anything that conflicted with the views he has held all his political life. No bad thing some might say, but it illustrates that he is somewhat inflexible. His anti European stance surprised me because the original European experiment was rather a socialist one with  wealthy countries supporting the poorer ones.

Lucille Grant ● 2855d

So do I. There are some excellent Labour backbenchers who if they could thrown off the shackles of Momentum that bind the Labour Party, would make a far better job than Corbyn and his acolytes.

Lucille Grant ● 2855d

Well watching interviews on the news last night, it would seem many will cast aside their usual political allegiance to vote for the Party who will stop/deliver Brexit, according to what they want to see happen.

Martine Guy ● 2855d

And if Corbyn is a "Wrecker" for demanding that No-Deal be ruled out as a precondition for his taking part in the consultations, then what is May?:-"Downing Street has again insisted the prime minister is determined to stick to her Brexit “principles”, including rejecting a customs union and a second referendum, as she embarks on cross-party talks to try to salvage her Brexit deal." Who is a wrecker?

David Ainsworth ● 2855d

David, you ask good questions. Why not offer some answers to them?  TM has to sacrifice at least one of her red lines to entice any of her opponents from other parties. But she might lose even more support in her own party if she does so. Brexit is the wrecker but the wreckage is being compounded (mixed metaphor - sorry!) by the leaders of both parties. What an awful mess we are in!  Type “how much has Brexit cost us so far” into Google and you’ll get some terrifying estimates. And we’ve not even left yet.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2855d

Well, in my mind, if May is meeting with party leaders to discuss Brexit deadlock with a view to unlocking it, then compromises must be made by all to reach consensus.If consensus is truthfully sought, then one or more of May's red lines will have to go.Also, I recall that Parliament voted to create financial obstacle to a no-deal Brexit recently.If this is the case, then I can see no justifiable reason for May not to accept Corbyn's request to drop the no-deal.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2855d

"I can see no justifiable reason for May not to accept Corbyn's request to drop the no-deal."I would guess that the reason (justifiable or not) is that the request comes from Corbyn, and the Tories would rather go down in flames than give him even a small victory. Mind you, perhaps he knows that.

David Ainsworth ● 2855d

Which means that "leave self-interest" aside has no meaning whatsoever!I also very much doubt that Corbyn is the only one asking to drop the no-deal....  What an unforgivable mess!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2855d

I saw Caroline Lucas being interviewed on BBC 24 HR News and she said that asked for no-deal to be removed as an option. I think Corbyn and May have to get over their intense personal dislike for each other or no nominate proxy's. I am rather of the opinion that May will conclude the talks with other leaders failed because they were all being unreasonable and did not agree with her ...

Michael Ixer ● 2855d

Urgh "proxies" !

Michael Ixer ● 2855d

How on earth to find a way forward out of the current mess in the Commons? The idea of indicative voting to try to find a common denominator is possible, but what if none of the various options gained a majority? We'd then be no further forward but would have lost precious time. But there's an interesting column by Philip Collins in today's Times that has a suggestion, and it's this:"Instead of indicative votes, the newly bold prime minister that, as a writer of fiction, I have invented would act playfully. She would sponsor the equivalent ofI’m a Eurosceptic Get Me Out of Here (Probably) in which candidates are gradually eliminated until a winner emerges, covered in grubs, from the jungle. Maybe the House of Commons would not agree to play or abide by the result. Maybe some of the no-deal advocates and some of the second referendum crowd are prepared to scupper everything short of their best option. If so, shame on them.The way it would work is this. Define the available options. Let us say there are six: no-deal, a Canada-style deal, Mrs May’s deal, a Norway-type arrangement with membership of the customs union, a second referendum, and revoking Article 50 and forgetting the whole thing. MPs would vote for the one they like best and the option that attracted the least votes would be eliminated. MPs would then vote again and eliminate a second option and so on, in a series of five votes, until a winner emerged."The virtue of the scheme is that it forces MPs to choose. If no-deal was eliminated early in the voting, as it would be, then the hard Brexit crowd would be forced to consider what they were prepared to accept rather than tediously telling us again what they were not. They would probably migrate to Canada (if only they would). Likewise, if the option of the second referendum fell, which it probably would, its advocates would be compelled to stop running down the clock and accept a compromise. Most of them would choose Norway. It is probable that the last three options standing would be Canada, Norway and Mrs May’s deal."Would this work? It's at least a possible way, which is more than one can say of all the other suggestions to get us out of this utter stasis.

Richard Carter ● 2855d

I should have added that Philip Collins' suggestion would need a show of creativity, flexibility and imagination that May has signally failed to display in her entire life before  which probably dooms the idea.Today's cartoon in the Times sums up where we are with our current "leadership."

Richard Carter ● 2855d

The "hostile" strategy of the Home Office was started by May. When I read articles on the news like this, I pray for a General Election. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-46923234

John Cameron ● 2853d

You may pray for a General Election John but what will it solve? The last one was less than 2 years ago! The country is completely divided and there is no one party equipped to lead us out of this mess both at home and with Europe. Out of interest who do you suggest?

Lucille Grant ● 2853d