Forum Topic

Now the HMRC ...

... is disrupted by the madness of Brexit. What a mess ... definitely time to cancel A50 and have a vote no we know that Brexit means chaos?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47343828

Michael Ixer ● 2818d38 Comments

And this guidance about travelling to the EU is going to be seriously disruptive to people I know ... why would anyone vote for this?https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-nationals-travelling-to-eu-essential-information

Michael Ixer ● 2818d

I agree with you Michael, most wholeheartedly.  Until this Brexit mess is not straightened, Article 50 should be postponed or suspended.I can almost say, in a very insulting way, the UK government is almost hand in hand with the disaster of the Venezuelan government.No offence meant to anyone, but can you see the parallel?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2818d

Ivonne, I see some parallels but I hope we still have enough sane MPs - Keir Starmer, Ken Clarke, Yvette Cooper, Justine Greening, etc - and enough of a parliamentary democracy left  to avoid the ERG, government and other lemmings ...

Michael Ixer ● 2818d

I so wholeheartedly hope so!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2818d

Brexit is to blame for people getting penalised for not paying their tax bill on time? When they have had 6-12 months to save for it unlike people who pay via PAYE?HilariousI say this as a self employed person who would be affected by this

Emarisa Battoia ● 2818d

I am sorry Emarisa, but I do not understand what you are saying.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2818d

Or, more to the point, what is the problem as a self- employed person paying the taxes they have to against the point being made by Michael?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2818d

I've no sympathy for anyone paying their tax late. I suspect the late issue of these notices is just the tip of the iceberg of the resources being diverted to Brexit. A completely unnecessary cost and waste of resources.

Michael Ixer ● 2818d

The penalty notices wouldn't have to be issued at all if self-employed people completed their tax returns on time. If they do them late, they get fined, it's always been that way so what's the problem? It's all done online, no travelling anywhere, no queuing in a tax office, no inconvenience so how bloody hard is that?  Emarisa is right and HMRC has already said that nobody will be treated unfairly.  Fgs stop whingeing about Brexit, and delaying Article 50 isn't going to make it go away.

Sue Hammond ● 2818d

Sue,What has the late submission of tax returns have to do with Brexit????????????????????????????????

Ivonne Holliday ● 2818d

@ Ivonne.What???????????????????????????????????????????????????????Read Michaels first sentence and then read his link about late tax returns and late penalty letters.

Sue Hammond ● 2818d

Brilliant - I'll need a visa just to go and spend time with my French partner. As will people who continue to do business on a regular basis in Europe.

Lucille Grant ● 2817d

My point was how this is the latest example of how Brexit is interfering with and disrupting the day to day business of government or the issues it creates for many people. Irrespective of any merits with Brexit it's been incompetently managed. As we live in a democracy I won't stop reminding people about the problems with Brexit.

Michael Ixer ● 2817d

Did you actually read the example that was provided? there are many good examples as how Brexit could cause chaos but penalty notices for people paying their tax late is not a good oneThat was my point Ivonne

Emarisa Battoia ● 2817d

there is no doubt that brexit is causing problems and leaving without enough planning and preparation for WTO etc will be even more problematic, but it didnt have to be this way, brexit was an opportunity to do things differently, working with the EU rather than within the EU, but no, the strategy has been flawed from day one. What would I do now? I would tear up the PMs deal, work out how long is needed to plan and prepare for a clean-break and delay A.50 accordingly.

Adam Tripp ● 2817d

Emarisa and Adam. Yes, that's really my point, the mismanagement must be catastrophic for it to impinge on something like these notices that in this day and age should be an automated IT process with minimal manual intervention ... And for it to become apparent only about a month before exit date!

Michael Ixer ● 2817d

There are a myriad of reasons why a person may submit their self-assessment late, from health reasons (heart attacks, strokes, bereavement even death) to absolute procrastination and many others in between.  But Brexit would not necessarily be a direct reason. Late submissions are not new.If, due to workload caused by Brexit, the HMRC is unable to fulfil its obligations, for this year alone, the deadline for submission of self-assessment should be extended to the end of March 2019. Paying taxes late is not a good move but there may be very valid reasons in some cases.The article mentions 746,000 people are late.  If, for argument sake, we consider that some 40 million people are liable to tax, then it is a 1.9% shortfall or in other words 98.1% have completed their tax obligations on time.But, the fine warning as HMRC delays tax return penalty letters is certainly another example of how unprepared this country is for Brexit.  And this is the serious problem. 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d

Let us hope that Article 50 is triggered to allow the UK to iron out all these details!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d

And time for Spain to sort out its claim on Gibraltar?

Michael Ixer ● 2817d

IvonneThe article talks about sending penalty notices out to late payers late. And that HMRC are saying its due to increased workload as a result of BrexitMy point was that these people should not be paying their tax late anyway. Yes there are some reasons, but as someone who is self employed i can tell you that if you are ill or have a bereavement then you can ring HMRC and give them advance warning. They are usually very good with this sort of thing and i have had to do this beforeSo, back to my original point....the majority of late payers should have paid their tax on time and if they receive the late payment notice late then they havent really got an arguement as they should have already contacted HMRC. And with this in mind, using penalty notices as a reason to argue a point about Brexit is not a good idea as there are many better examples. I was not meaning to discuss self assessment

Emarisa Battoia ● 2817d

Hello Emarisa,"The first paragraph of the article reads:Taxpayers who missed January's self-assessment deadline might see increased fines because of a delay in sending out penalty notices, experts have warned." And the fourth paragraphs states:"HMRC blamed increased workload from Brexit for the delay but said no one would be "unfairly penalised"."

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d

I am not disputing that Ivonne. I am saying that there must be a better example to use for Brexit chaos than people who did not pay their tax on time. It was a joke but to be honest, you are driving me a bit up the wall. I have no idea what you are saying. People find out anytime between May - October what the tax bill is for them to pay no later than 31 January. They are fully aware of this. If they cannot be bothered to pay it or ring HMRC to say it will be late, then its their own fault and so deserve a penalty notice even if it is late.To confirm, these are penalty notices, it is not the bill or the assessment that is late. It is people who have not paid.  Wow. Never thought i would see you sticking up for people who have not paid their taxes!

Emarisa Battoia ● 2817d

And if they miss the self assessment deadline there is still no excuse. Everyone is aware of the deadline and you can do your self assessment anytime from the 1st April. I do mine in May so that i pay a more accurate payment in July. I'm sorry, its a floored arguement.

Emarisa Battoia ● 2817d

And submitting an assessment late means you pay your tax late which means less money and possibly a need for the Treasury to borrow more to tide them overSo ..... again...... whether it be late assessment or late payment i dont think its an appropriate arguement against Brexit. Plenty more to choose from such as climate change agreements etc

Emarisa Battoia ● 2817d

Emarisa, that's my point, this is so trivial so there's no way that Brexit should have impinged on such a routine, mundane tax collection activity and resulted in potential delays in collecting money. The way Brexit is being handled is comparable to the way the TSB managed their recent IT upgrade but unfortunately whereas TSB customers could move to another, more competent, bank that isn't an option with Brexit.

Michael Ixer ● 2817d

My point is that this shouldn't even be news. There are far more important things, sorry if you don't agree :/

Emarisa Battoia ● 2817d

OK, not sure why the BBC picked up on it. Yes, the migration of Japanese business away from the UK seems far more serious but I better warn that it's a link to the Guardian :-( ... https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/24/japan-brexit-honda-nissan-liam-fox

Michael Ixer ● 2817d

@Ivonne 11.35"Let us hope that Article 50 is triggered to allow the U.K. to iron out all these details!"Article 50 was triggered on 29th March 2017. Do try to keep up!

Sue Hammond ● 2817d

Adam, by this stage I agree!!Michael - from my perspective the mismanagement has been due in its entirety to the government, with a chancellor who has not wanted to free up funds and a prime minister who works keeping her colleagues in the dark whilst mouthing empty phases.  These are our two most senior politicians- one seems to want BRINO (May) and the other to remain.By all means put in a few months delay to help sort things out if the EU agrees, but it is the lack of will in parliament and government to deliver a meaningful Brexit and to confront the issues in a timely manner that is the cause.  All the MPs now whinging that we are not prepared and can’t go WTO have contributed collectively to facilitate the current position.The buck stops at the top and these two have the most to answer for.Somehow I’m sure you’ll manage to blame the ERG though ;-)

Mike Warman ● 2817d

What a wonderful afternoon!  The walk along the river was sublime!Emarisa, the article mentioned deadline of self-assessment forms.  And, in paragraph 4 of the article, the HMRC blamed Brexit, not me. Taking into consideration that all these letters are computer generated, if HMRC cannot see to them because of the arrangements currently being made for Brexit, then, it is not incorrect to assume that the arrangements being made for it are not altogether organized...  The deadline of self-assessments is universal, it applies to all, be they self-employed, PAYE and whichever other categories there are.  In the case of the PAYE, they have already paid their taxes.  If the self-assessment form shows they owe some more, then it should be paid.  But the self-assessment form may indicate that they have overpaid...The article mentions 746,000 people were/are late with the self assessments.  We do not know if they are self-employed or PAYE.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d

Hello Sue,Oooops!!!  Did not mean that, meant to say postponed or suspended!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d

I did wonder if there was a typo there, Ivonne. I do feel sorry for people like Lucille. I also know EU citizens in the UK who are concerned because of the nasty reputation gained by the Home Office because of their despicable and unfair handling of some of the Windrush immigrants - although I suspect in the event of trouble they have the EU to support them.

Michael Ixer ● 2817d

Thanks Michael - After reading your link it seems things may be worse than I originally thought. There's a limit of 180 days of which I can stay for up to 90. 'The European Commission has proposed that in a no deal situation, if you are a British Citizen, you would not need a visa for short stays in the Schengen area or elsewhere in the EU. You would be able to stay for up to 90 days in any 180-day period. Visits to the Schengen area within the previous 180 days before your date of travel will count against the 90-day limit.'

Lucille Grant ● 2817d

Brexit is not the problem here, it's the total inadequacy of the government (any government) to plan for it.  All the problems stated so far have been because we have systems and have not adjusted those systems to embrace the different systems we'll have in the future.All of this is because parliamentarians prefer to put their heads in the sand rather than plan ahead

Bunny Payne ● 2817d

And presumably this will be reciprocal so the same rules will apply to an EU national coming here for an extended visit. This will slow down passport control!  It’s a disgrace, all this. And to what end?

Jonathan Callaway ● 2817d

There's really no need for an apology, Ivonne, it was perfectly clear what you meant, nor any need for snide comments on an obvious mistake.

Richard Carter ● 2817d

Lucille, I do feel for you too!It seems to me if, the worst comes to the worst, you will have to visit France from January to March and then from July onwards.... Not good, is you are accustomed to their voice!  This is a different taking from My Fair Lady by the way.On a different note, a relative of ours got married on France in early 70s, has been there since and never took out French citizenship.  A similar situation????

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d

Thank you Richard!I think everybody knew what I meant but became suddenly facetious!!  Ha ha ha ha!!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2817d