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Well, for your information I have a low-emission petrol car (106 g/km CO2) and several bicycles (0 g/km CO2). But you're trying to personalise an issue of principle, and I think that's inappropriate. In particular, you say that "It's all very well to take the high ground if you have one or more vehicles that are or are not subject to the charge," the clear implication being that, since in my case I would not be subject to the charge, I have a free run at advocating it. In fact, you have it exactly the wrong way round: I have a low emission car precisely **because** I am concerned about emissions, and I use it as little as possible for the same reason.And I agree that the new charge is not "a complete and honest solution," because that would involve an outright ban on all polluting vehicles. Just imagine the hysterical reaction that would produce! It is the eventual solution for urban areas, but simple politics means that it will be some time before this is adopted. But it must eventually be adopted eventually.The claim that it's "plainly a cash grab" is the last resort of people who cannot or will not recognise the serious problem that pollution causes: in London, the accepted figure of an estimated 9,000 premature deaths each year is likely an underestimate, since it is based on an overall total for the UK of 40,000. New research indicates that the 40,000 figure is a serious underestimate (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/03/12/air-pollution-killing-nearly-many-people-smoking-britain/) so the 9,000 figure for London must also be an underestimate.. It's time for people to recognise priorities, and reducing premature deaths and ill health is more important then the simple convenience of the car.

Richard Carter ● 2772d

In economics, Henry Sidgwick introduced the concept of “externalities” over a century ago. A negative externality is an economic activity that harms an unrelated third party, such as our broader society. Air pollution is one of the clearest forms of a negative externality. If I drive a polluting car through your street, your children will inhale toxins without having any relation to me or my driving. Other examples are nuclear waste, water pollution, or overfishing. Richard has shown the severity of air pollution in London. So unless you wish to debate these statistics and take up the view of climate change deniers that sadly are still amongst us in powerful places such as the US Presidency, the question then becomes to what extent the ULEZ regulation is an effective tool in countering the negative externality of air pollution.In principle the tool is extremely effective for two reasons. First of all, it puts a tax on those who pollute. Secondly, it incentivizes owners of cars to replace their current vehicle for a less polluting one. I myself have just traded in my Euro 5 diesel for a ULEZ compliant car as I need to drive through Central London occasionally. Given cars on average last 13-15 years, the question of how to speed up the car replacement cycle towards newer combustion engines and hybrid/electric vehicles is an important one.So then the final question is what the right price to put on the air pollution externality is. If you say that this is the most important thing in the world, then you might argue for an outright ban on combustion engines. That would force replacing the c2.6mln cars in London for electric vehicles, which at a price of c£50k implies a total cost of £130 billion. Apart from the fact that there is insufficient supply of electric vehicles today, those costs would arguable be too much to bear for Londoners.The gradual introduction of the ULEZ is therefore an attempt to price a serious societal externality, whilst not putting an unbearable liability on car owners and charging only those people that are the root cause of the issue. In that sense I think it is a great rule. It is time we recognize the importance of environmental pollution and accept our responsibility to pay for it.

Sjoerd de Koning ● 2772d

Richard - "But you're trying to personalise an issue of principle, and I think that's inappropriate." is evasive. Ive been entirely 'personal' in my statement of my position. I see no reason why you should not be either. If only to show that you are not a hypocrite. Thank you for confirming that you appear not to be. I assume you fly infrequently too.As I may have said before, it's an ill-thought through scheme that hits the less well off disproportionately. I see no offers of compensation or help to buy a replacement.out of interest, answer me a few questions if you will.How are those on the South Circular going to feel when all the traffic skirts around the zone using this road, thereby increasing their 'share' of the problem? Khan has stated categorically that there is no plan to expand the zone to the M25. Watch this space.Why were those buying diesels in 2015/2016 not warned about this? I'd be doubly annoyed if I was in their shoes. Consider how their car will have disproportionately dropped in value.Do you consider £25 to drive a car from let's say, Putney Bridge Road to the South Circular for a night out or a weekend away a fair thing? Or for friends visiting from out of London?And while we are at it why do the authorities pick on car drivers? I'll save you the effort. We are easy meat, that's why.Just wait till the news really gets to the thousands of people this will affect in 2021. Remember how the western extension of the central congestion zone was removed after a 62% response to a consultation forced Boris to act?

Freddie Francis ● 2772d

I don't "appear to be" a hypocrite! Well, thanks for nothing, Freddie Francis. As to your questions:1. "How are those on the South Circular going to feel when all the traffic skirts around the zone…" There will always be boundary problems when there is a boundary. And there may be no plan at this stage to extend to the M25, but it's the logical next step.2. "Why were those buying diesels in 2015/2016 not warned about this?" Possibly because the plan hadn't been developed then.3. "Do you consider £25 to drive a car from let's say, Putney Bridge Road to the South Circular for a night out or a weekend away a fair thing? Or for friends visiting from out of London?" Setting aside the obvious point that you easily walk from the PBR to the South Circular, if people visit from outside London they will clearly have to pay: are you suggesting an exemption?  Because they can, at this stage, park outside the ULEZ and use public transport from there - or go ahead and pay the charge.4. "why do the authorities pick on car drivers?" They don't: "Most vehicles, including cars and vans, need to meet the ULEZ emissions standards or their drivers must pay a daily charge to drive within the zone: • £12.50 for most vehicle types, including cars, motorcycles and vans (up to and including 3.5 tonnes)• £100 for heavier vehicles, including lorries (over 3.5 tonnes) and buses/coaches (over 5 tonnes)" (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone)The fact is that you appear to be more concerned about people having to pay for their polluting vehicles but not at all bothered by the dreadful effects (ill health, premature deaths). Is that right, or do you have an alternative suggestion for how to deal with this major health issue? Perhaps you could try reading Sjoerd de Koning's reasoned post before posting again.

Richard Carter ● 2772d

Hi Freddie,I posted some thoughts earlier today in a higher up part of this threat which you may have missed, arguing that the ULEZ is quite an effective tool for what it aims to do. Just copying it below in case you haven’t had the chance to read it.I think you’re right to point out that the ULEZ is not a perfect system and it will create certain side effects like increased traffic on the edges of the zone. I think the disappointing reality is that any system of government interference will be characterized by a degree of such undesirable side effects. To me it does not detract from the fundamental principle of the ULEZ as being an effective tool of pricing a negative externality, as well as speeding up the car replacement cycle.I don’t think tracking per mile is currently feasible as it requires monitoring systems on every street corner, which London currently does not have.A higher fuel charge could be a good idea but only works at a regional or national level, given that incentivizes people to buy fuel outside the zones of influence of the London authorities. Compensation for low income people is an income inequality matter which is fair to point out, but a small detail in the grand scheme of things.On your point of hitting consumers, these will always be the ones to pay for it. Commerce is a mere conduit as it passes on costs to end consumers, assuming it has pricing power over consumers. The principle remains that those who are causing the pollution are required to pay for it. Whether that is me driving a car, or me buying a product that is driven into Central London by van does not matter.In economics, Henry Sidgwick introduced the concept of “externalities” over a century ago. A negative externality is an economic activity that harms an unrelated third party, such as our broader society. Air pollution is one of the clearest forms of a negative externality. If I drive a polluting car through your street, your children will inhale toxins without having any relation to me or my driving. Other examples are nuclear waste, water pollution, or overfishing. Richard has shown the severity of air pollution in London. So unless you wish to debate these statistics and take up the view of climate change deniers that sadly are still amongst us in powerful places such as the US Presidency, the question then becomes to what extent the ULEZ regulation is an effective tool in countering the negative externality of air pollution.In principle the tool is extremely effective for two reasons. First of all, it puts a tax on those who pollute. Secondly, it incentivizes owners of cars to replace their current vehicle for a less polluting one. I myself have just traded in my Euro 5 diesel for a ULEZ compliant car as I need to drive through Central London occasionally. Given cars on average last 13-15 years, the question of how to speed up the car replacement cycle towards newer combustion engines and hybrid/electric vehicles is an important one.So then the final question is what the right price to put on the air pollution externality is. If you say that this is the most important thing in the world, then you might argue for an outright ban on combustion engines. That would force replacing the c2.6mln cars in London for electric vehicles, which at a price of c£50k implies a total cost of £130 billion. Apart from the fact that there is insufficient supply of electric vehicles today, those costs would arguable be too much to bear for Londoners.The gradual introduction of the ULEZ is therefore an attempt to price a serious societal externality, whilst not putting an unbearable liability on car owners and charging only those people that are the root cause of the issue. In that sense I think it is a great rule. It is time we recognize the importance of environmental pollution and accept our responsibility to pay for it.

Sjoerd de Koning ● 2772d

Hi Sue, Yes indeed, that is commerce at work and in line with what I stated. Judging by the tone of your comment I sense you are not happy with this outcome. Let me provide you with some more thoughts.I believe some people were concerned that the ULEZ charge would put tradesmen out of business. My point was that this will likely not be the case, because the ULEZ costs will be passed on to consumers. This is in line with the target of countering externalities: the consumer who enjoys the ultimate benefit of a good, say buying and eating a banana, has to pay a higher price for this banana to take into account the cost of pollution he created by consuming that banana.So the first conclusion is that tradesmen will not go bankrupt from the ULEZ as they will pass on the price to consumers.Secondly, I disagree with the tradesmen you heard on LBC saying they will not buy a compliant vehicle. Whilst I am sure that many have no intention of doing so today, I think logic will make them buy one over time. In order to prove this to you, let’s take a simplified hypothetical example. Say you and I both operate a shop selling bananas in Green Park. We both drive a non-compliant van every day from a wholesaler of bananas to our store to stock it up with bananas. Say there are 250 working days in a year. We both incur £25,000 (250 x £100) in costs for ULEZ every year. Initially we are fine with that because we both raise the price of our bananas to the same degree and the rich tourists in Green Park don’t buy any less bananas.Unlike myself, you are smart and start to think about this more carefully. You decide to buy a new, ULEZ compliant van at a cost of £25,000. If you allocate the costs of a new can over five years the annual costs are £5,000, which compares very favourably to the annual costs of incurring the ULEZ. You are able to lower the costs of bananas versus me and hence you gain more business. In turn, I am forced to follow your example and decide to buy a new van as well.Whilst I am the first to admit that the world is not this simple and I am pretty sure there are no shops around Green Park that only sell bananas, I believe the principle holds. In fact, I suspect that the civil servant who designed the ULEZ system will have thought about the business case for tradesmen which led him to decide on a higher charge versus passenger vehicles. The ULEZ charge incentive the replacement of vehicles by making a non-compliant car more expensive.Conversely, the ULEZ charge works a little bit like a subsidy in the sense that it makes the business case for a compliant car more attractive. However, it is superior to a subsidy in the fact that in the ULEZ case the end consumer pays for the incentive, while in a subsidy every tax payer pays for the incentive, irrespective of whether one enjoys the benefits of a banana in Green Park or not.

Sjoerd de Koning ● 2772d