Forum Topic

BBC scrapping free TV licences for over 75's

It is believed 3.7 million over 75's will be affected by the withdrawal of the free TV licence.The £154.50 a year will be unaffordable for many over 75's, with many already on low incomes.I find this pretty appalling when you have employees like Gary Lineker earning £1.75 million a year, according to the own BBC's accounts.How can this huge salary for one individual be justified?A reported 5.9 million people have cancelled their licences since 2012, so the BBC are obviously looking to claw some money back from other avenues.

Paul Game ● 2711d64 Comments

"The £154.50 a year will be unaffordable for many over 75's, with many already on low incomes."The cuts are means tested, so if one person in your house receives pension credit you will still get your licence for free.

Matt Palmer ● 2711d

This is effectively another Tory government cut. In 2015 the government stopped paying for this benefit and dumped the decision on the BBC. Perhaps all the over 75s will all put on their yellow vests like the French would do and refuse to pay. That would clog up the  court system 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2711d

£3 per week

James G Francis ● 2711d

So basically it's the same as when you are younger and working; if you are getting benefits then you are helped but if you are just about getting by and not relying on the State then tough£167 per week is actually not that much when you think of how much energy costs, how much food costs, clothes cost, you may have a hobby and  shock horror you may have a carI understand that some pensioners are on final salary pensions etc and could afford it, but I don't think if you are on just the State Pension (without credits) that it automatically means you canCould they not have just charged them 50% or something?Another thing, you don't need to enter a license number or anything when watching online meaning lots of people get away with not paying. Why don't they tackle this area instead?

Emarisa Battoia ● 2710d

Michael is right. The government outsourced this benefit cut and forced it on the Beeb. Whittingdale was always anti Beeb and pro Murdoch.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2710d

I find this "cut" really unacceptable, if not unforgivable.John Whittingdale was sacked in July 2016.  I suppose Brexit got in the way and other business was really not looked after.  Appalling.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2710d

The Daily Mail take on this, blaming the BBC for a betrayal when (as Michael pointed out, it was a conservative government cut) is particularly obnoxious. All part of their anti-BBC line.

Richard Carter ● 2710d

So that particular ploy by the Tories seems to be working.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2710d

I've just had a look on twitter and Gary Lineker is top trending in the UK today regarding his BBC salary. It's outrageous he is being paid so much by the taxpayer. (1.75 Million a year)Des Lynam and Johnathon Ross moved on when they started demanding too much money, so why won't the BBC do the same to the likes of Lineker and Norton.These salaries are unaffordable in the public sector and wiping these high salaries of the payroll would go a long way to keeping the free licences for the over 75's.

Paul Game ● 2710d

They are saying Gary Lineker is being paid what he is worth, because if he was on Sky that’s what Sky would pay him.  I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who says they watch Match of the Day because they want to watch Gary Lineker present the programme.  Would people really be bothered if he left the BBC (or stopped doing the Walker’s Crisps ad)?

Martine Guy ● 2710d

Fair point Martine. The difference is that Sky are a private organisation that raise their own revenue.The BBC have to be seen to get value for money on behalf of the taxpayer.Lineker also presents Champions league on BT sports midweek, and also when I was in the Caribbean earlier in the year he was presenting football on an American football show which had rights to English football, so the BBC salary is not his only revenue.

Paul Game ● 2710d

That level of salary seems extreme for a public service broadcast station. I don't follow football but why do people watch match of the day on BBC? Is it because the BBC coverage is significantly better than Sky, or because they can't afford or don't want to pay for a Sky subscription? (I gave up watching F1 when it swapped to Sky not because I couldn't afford Sky but because I wasn't going to be forced into buying a package I didn't want as most of what I do watch is BBC 24 hour news. And Formula E is still on free view ...)I'm assuming the BBC employs celebrities as they attract viewers and boost their ratings so one could argue that's driven by the viewing public who complain about these salaries?

Michael Ixer ● 2710d

Depends who he was replaced with. If he was replaced by, say Robbie Savage or Chris Sutton, I'd stop watching MOTD completely.There are plenty of ex-footballers who could talk about football on MOTD. Very few of them make good presenters.There are plenty of people who are good at presenting on TV. Very few of them know enough about football for them to be relevant for that programme.Gary Linekar knows about football and is very good at presenting, so I can see why he is going to be expensive.

Alex Greenbank ● 2710d

I think the licence fee should be scrapped altogether and the BBC can raise their funds through advertising, like ITV. Having to spend its own money rather than the public's might make the BBC more prudent with it.

Sue Hammond ● 2710d

Think you are spot on Sue. It's surely just a matter of time.The public are cancelling their Licence fees at an alarming rate, and if it continues the current funding levels aren't sustainable.

Paul Game ● 2710d

Hello Michael,I suspect people watch MOTD on BBC because, for one, the programme in itself must be very good (or else it would not have survived for so long) and also, no adverts so they have an uninterrupted programme.  I do not follow football either for various reasons.But I will defend the TV licence with great determination because it does provide value for money and the programmes on the whole a fabulous.  There are repeats, I do agree but there are also on commercial TV.  I do dislike commercial TV because on the whole the programmes are dreadful with a few exceptions.  Secondly, depending on who the "owner" is, you will only be provided what they wish you to know and/or watch.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2710d

Just watching Tom Watson in Parliament on BBC 24 news. Apparently it was in the Tory 2017 manifesto that this was one of the pensioner benefits that they'd protect. Obvious a broken promise or whoever drafted it was ignorang  of the fact the decision had been delegated to the BBC. (Wasn't another of Grayling's efforts?)

Michael Ixer ● 2710d

I just read that Piers Morgan is outraged about this.  He is not a saint of my devotion by any stretch of the imagination and I do not watch ITV.However, I must agree with him when he says:“I’m hopping mad on behalf of 3.7million pensioners who have now woken up to this,” he said on Tuesday’s show. “What I’m really sensitive about is – do you know what that number includes? It includes all the D-Day veterans doesn’t it? The ones that we just spent a week saluting."

Ivonne Holliday ● 2710d

"“What I’m really sensitive about is – do you know what that number includes?"It probably includes hundreds of thousands of Labour voters, which should please Piers Morgan (of ITV) no end, shouldn't it? So swings and roundabouts for his spurious rage.

David Ainsworth ● 2710d

Well said Ivonne.I was thinking the same thing about the D-Day veterans, but after the arguments on the forum last week, I decided not to mention it. But thanks, it breaks my heart too.My mum worked in the community as a carer most of her life and there are many old lonely people living on their own, who haven't got 2 pennies to rub together and rely on TV for their main link to the outside world.It's absolutely shameful!

Paul Game ● 2710d

But they ARE giving free licences to those exact people if they are on pension credit - your D-Day veterans etc, not that D-Day vets are automatically to me considered likely to be on the bread-line course. On the flip-side, it's worth asking oneself, if you think it's justifiable to give someone on a £40k plus private pension a freebie at the tax payers expense, albeit a paltry £3.20 a week one? I certain;y would not if I was in that position. A similar problem with winter fuel supplements.

Freddie Francis ● 2710d

Also whilst basic state pension, and pension credit has been rising slightly with inflation each year, council tax and particularly utility bills around the country haven't been. They've been going through the roof.(Although not council tax in our borough as it has remained low for many years)Utility Bills have been rising rapidly since the government privatised the companies, so disposable income for the elderly has got less and less, and they keep getting further squeezed year on year.

Paul Game ● 2710d

Hello David,I have no clue if Piers Morgan refers to the hundreds of thousands of Labour voters. What I do certainly agree is with the last two sentences of the statement:"... What I’m really sensitive about is – do you know what that number includes? It includes all the D-Day veterans doesn’t it? The ones that we just spent a week saluting."The D-Day veterans.... we just spent a week saluting.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2710d

Why has noone complained about MPs receiving free licences? are they all over 75? Will it include them too?

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2710d

Hello Barbara,I did not know that MPs received free TV licences.  Do they really?

Ivonne Holliday ● 2710d

I happen to think that there are people over a certain age that should get this as a right just because of what their generation went through.  To means test them is shameful.

Martine Guy ● 2710d

I think that all older people of a certain age should be given a free t.v licence.  Not only did many of them go through the war, but they lived in such terribly hard times.  Coal fires, no running hot water, 2 weeks holiday, a car if they were very lucky, no phones, no nhs, no benefits, etc, etc. I don’t begrudge them a free t.v. licence to give a bit of comfort in their old age, they deserve it.

Martine Guy ● 2710d

It's the government that has withdrawn the funding, forcing the BBC to find a compromise. Pensioners receiving pension credits will still get a free TV license. Those who can pay, will. This government seems ok to have millions of children living in poverty, and families relying on food banks. They are living through hard times now.  They don't get a free tv license.Blame the government, not the bbc.

Clare Noeken ● 2710d

Sorry but I think those of the wartime/elderly generation should get the licence for free.  If they choose to pay for a licence that is up to the them, if they can afford it, but none of them should be made to pay.  It is shameful.I agree about families in poverty today and reliance on food banks.  Nobody should have to go to prison because they cannot pay the fine for not having a licence.  Time for a re-think on how the BBC is funded.

Martine Guy ● 2710d

According to the internet, yes they are entitled to a free licence and it is up to them if they take it.  Well I didn’t know that until Barbara posted about it.

Martine Guy ● 2710d

Not quite true. According to Wikipedia, crown exemptions extend to parliament, not individual MPs. The MPs who have 'claimed a free license' have actually charged their constituency office tv license as an expense. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdomhttps://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/wealthy-tories-claim-free-tv-13752146

Clare Noeken ● 2710d

It is back to the same old story of claiming expenses....  for duck houses?My goodness, words escape me!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2710d

The online petition is on 100,000 already. I think the decision will almost certainly end up being reversed, as the pressure will only get greater.Piers Morgan has just tweeted that he has asked for a BBC representative to go on his show in the morning but they have so far refused.

Paul Game ● 2710d

Freddie, you are comparing £40k pensions to the state pension which is about £8700 per yearIf you get pension credits then your pension is less than that, they are the people who will continue to get the license, not the ones on the basic state pensionSo, from that £8700 you take off about £1000 for energy and then about another £1200 per year for Council Tax (Ealing Council band B). That leaves you with about  £6500 per year, or £125 per weekTo buy food, clothes, household stuff, replace old items such as fridges or cookers etc. Oh and maybe dare buy a grandchild a treatThey could at least given them a 50% discount at worst. AFTER looking at their wages billAnd TBH  I'm sick of the BBC constantly banging on about the market rate for well known presenters. Why can't they use their status to break some new people? Do we need Winkleman, Lineker, Ball etc etc. Why not give some underdogs a head start. Isn't that what a public funded organisation should do? And be proud of it?

Emarisa Battoia ● 2710d

For someone on a basic state pension c£3 per week presumably is significant? I sometimes wonder, given the administration and compliance costs, whether means testing benefits such as these saves a lot of money in the long run? One solution is to look at the Beeb's funding: licence fees fund news current affairs, history, education, and maybe certain dramas and music; instate advertising for sports, soap operas, light entertainment, quiz shows and similar entertainment programmes? Then maybe reinstate free licences for pensioners and even extend them to other needy people such as families on universal credit?

Michael Ixer ● 2710d

Emarisa, my point was that a great proportion of pensioners, who's income and wealth is way beyond those that receive the basic pension, do not need the perk of a free licence. The money could be put to better use. How that's managed is for the government to work out, especially given it is they and NOT the BBC, who many here have a bee in their bonnet about, who have caused this mess.

Freddie Francis ● 2709d

As a pensioner myself and with many friends who are also pensioners, I can confirm that many give their winter fuel allowance to charities. I also know pensioners who have cancelled their licence and no longer have a TV (though they are consistently harassed to pay the fee). The government (i.e. civil servants) say that means testing this benefit is not cost effective. In this age of "big data" analysis, I do find that  posture hard to justify. When we consider how the BBC has grown the number of channels and services it provides today compared to say 20 years ago, they justify that expansion based upon servicing specific audiences (e.g. BBC 3 aimed at online millenials) who have no choice but to pay the licence fee though they may never watch Eastenders, listen to BBC News/propaganda or any BBC output come to that. The BBC is now effectively enacting government welfare policy. This action does not form any part of its charter. The BBC  board consists entirely of members of "the elite"; none of whom are representative or likely to suffer as a result of this policy change.  Personally, I would not miss the BBC if it ceased to exist. I feel sure that David Attenborough could find other outlets for his excellent work.

Roland Willis Gilmore ● 2709d

Not disputing that the government have caused this, however i am sure that the BBC could have compromised on some things before deciding that they could not make up the shortfall. The government has also withdrawn the funding for TFL and they are needing to find the money (while not being allowed to put up tube fares)

Emarisa Battoia ● 2709d

People who watch the BBC online and who listen to the radio are also meant to pay the fee - it actually asks you when you go online if you have a tv license, so your friends who do not have a tv should also not watch the BBC on iplayer or listen to the radio.

Emarisa Battoia ● 2709d

As it would be nigh on impossible for anyone to detect you watching the BBC on an iPad, iPhone or PC unless they had a warrant to enter your house and confiscate your device, there's plainly a gaping loophole in the principal of a TV license in today's world (unless you have a commonly used email address for both your iPlayer account and License account of course). The iPlayer tick box for the license ownership is about as ineffective as the 'Are you 18?' checkbox on other sites. It's just there to scare you into conforming while the risk of detection is actually minimal. On another note there are some that say/believe that the whole TV Detector van programme was a scare tactics propaganda. A strategy to enforce something that was almost impossible to trace. Then you have the threatening letters as someone else mentioned. What you might call a form bullying into conformity for fear of a jail term, albeit one that's now only a threat of a fine.

Freddie Francis ● 2709d

Freddie, I've never looked at the protocol iPlayer uses but I'm sure it can capture the attributes of the end point device as well as its IP address from which your address can be ascertained from your ISP - in a similar way you can be tracked if you're viewing illicit material. If you're a foreign traveller viewing it on public wi fi that could be more problematic but I'm sure they're not the main target. So watch iPlayer in Starbucks with an anonymous email address to avoid detection. Technically the old TV detector vans could pick up the intermediate frequencies in the tuners of VHF/UHF TV sets but I think in reality there were few operational (as opposed  to "dummy" ones) around. In practice TV licensing relied mainly on the fear factor, harassing those at an address without a  licence (still at least the post office now have a comprehensive list of UK addresses) and heavy, disproportionate penalties for those caught. 

Michael Ixer ● 2709d

Yes I suppose you're right regarding IP addresses as long as your ISP plays ball and it doesn't cross the line with data protection, but far more involved to track. And then of course with a VPN (Virtual Private Network) browser such as Opera you'd be untraceable. Doorstepping as a tactic is another way they can succeed in getting a prosecution, though as I understand it they have no right to enter your house to prove it without a warrant. You just have to stand your ground and say you don't watch the BBC.Easier to pay your dues in my view, or not watch or listen to Auntie in the first place.

Freddie Francis ● 2709d

I have Sky and pay for it. If I cancelled my monthly payment their service would be withdrawn. Why can't the BBC go down the pay-to-view route? ie: You want it you pay.

Simon Knight ● 2709d

The  pay-to-view route is no help to hard-up pensioners, Simon.

Lucille Grant ● 2709d

I made a momentous decision this morning to do a Paltrow and consciously uncouple myself from my relationship with the BBC. I discovered that Wimbledon Tennis will be live streamed on Prime Video (yay!!) so there will be no reason to be shackled to the Biased Broadcasting Company and give them my money for nothing in return. I have completed the online cancellation form and requested a refund and cancelled my direct debit. I feel purged!😇

Sue Hammond ● 2709d

the license covers radio too thoughI agree, sadly they are in a situation a bit like shops were when people started buying online. The more robust they become in trying to get money, the more people will leaveIt should just be paid from our taxes and they should therefore manage their budgetAlthough i dont really like the DM if you look at their frontpage online atm detailing BBC expenses (which i think must be true), you do have to ask if all is really necessaryFor example, taxi fares, if their presenters are self employed and getting a decent fee then they should arrange their own travel surely? Its a bit like you using a plumber and then having to arranging his transport. Its silly.....

Emarisa Battoia ● 2709d

They did use to come round if they thought you hadn't paid your TV Licence, I was out shopping years ago and my son who is 45 now shows how long ago. He went to the door and said I was shopping and the man asked if I had a TV Licence and my son replied my mum always pays her bills. He went away and I had paid. So they can also make a mistake.

Barbara Stevens ● 2709d

Of course it is Lucille. Scrap the license entirely and make BBC P-T-V. It'd give pensioners, me and you the option of whether we want to watch BBC or not.

Simon Knight ● 2709d

WOW! But 'You need a TV licence if you do the following:if you’re watching on TV or on an online TV servicefor ALL channels, not just the BBC....'So you can't just say you won't watch BBC and not pay the licence

Jane Carter ● 2709d

an aquaintance of mine moved house.  As he was totally redecorating he didn't have a TV..He was chased up officially 3 different times He was not believed. There was a knock at the door.  An official looking person was there, plus a policeman.  The policeman had a warrant to search the premises.They proceeded to do so. Found no TV and left.  No apology.  Never to be heard from again.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2709d

It’s pathetic, Barbara, when you think of all the real crime around on our streets, to involve the police.  What happened to detector vans?

Martine Guy ● 2709d

I'm pretty sure a police officer cannot demand entry without a warrant. The friend should have refused on principal. If they set foot in your house after you deny entry it's trespass. They simply called your friend's bluff and like most people confronted by the police complied. Happy to be corrected but I've seen plenty of videos of the police  back of down in the face of well informed member of the public.

Freddie Francis ● 2709d

He did have a warrant.

Simon Knight ● 2709d

Yes, it's one of those things where one wonders if the enforcement cost is justified but given the size of the fines perhaps it is. Most of it's fairly routine IT - checking which addresses on the UK postal address file don't have licences and sending a "threatening" letter. Your can now certify a licence isn't needed, think that's redone every 3 years and occasionally send someone to check. There are some anomalies: they struggle a bit when spouses use different surnames at the same address - I'd have thought that's pretty common these days - they have to add that manually (if ths licence is in one name and the other buys TV equipment which reported to the licencing authority by the retailer then that flags up an anomaly); also they struggle with US citizens who have holiday flats in Putney but no TV - US contact details and communication abroad throws their system 😶

Michael Ixer ● 2709d

A petition has been set up if anyone fancies signing it.https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/tv-licence-petition-free-over-75-bbc-pay-age-uk-signatures-gmb-latest/

Lucille Grant ● 2708d

Yes, I signed it yesterday.  Have just checked and delighted to see it has over 430,000 signatures.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2708d

I have just been speaking to an advisor at TVL Customer Services regarding cancelling my licence and got a shock. I thought that because I don't watch, listen, download, stream or record any BBC content I didn't need to have a licence, but I was informed that is incorrect. If you have a television in your property and watch ITV, SKY, C4,C5 or any others it is a legal requirement to have a licence. The only exceptions are if the property is empty or you do not watch the television at all, and then make the appropriate declaration. I honestly believed the licence was a requirement for the BBC only.

Sue Hammond ● 2708d

I'm almost sure that the license isn't legal because I'm being forced to buy a service that I don't actually want 90% of the time. And the odd 10% ain't worth £154pa.I just can't see that by owning a tv the BBC can say "you have our services and whether you watch it or not you have to pay us". I go to the newsagents and buy paper, I'm not told "that'll be another £1 because there are no ads in this paper"

Simon Knight ● 2708d

Sue is right. It's the law of the land - you need a licence to watch TV irrespective of which channel you prefer. If you're not happy you could always write to your MP.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2708d

I've said before Simon - many pensioners rely on the TV including the Beeb for the only entertainment they get. Why should they have to Pay to View? That is your choice but you can afford it.I watch the BBC, ITV Channel 4 all on TV or even more on my laptop on catch-up. Luckily I can afford to pay my licence still. I don't  buy Sky or any other PTV because for me that would be a luxury. For many over 75s if they have to pay the licence fee that will be a luxury for them.

Lucille Grant ● 2708d

Are you being obtuse?

Simon Knight ● 2708d

No. Are you?

Lucille Grant ● 2708d

@Simon. The licence is to receive broadcasts via whatever means (satellite, Freeview/DTV, internet, etc) and iPlayer. You can own a TV and not have a licence provided you only use the TV for watching pre-recorded DVDs, private CCTV,  audio only (DAB) and I think Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, etc. It's a licence to receive real time video broadcasts, not a service charge. It just happens that the government gave the BBC the responsibility of managing it and they get the money 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2708d

Wikipedia has lists of when you do and don't need a licence for using a TVhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

Michael Ixer ● 2708d