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And still you push this anti-Islamic stuff: "Some cultures choose to move here and not integrate with other groups, and often they sadly openly admit they hate this country."What's most depressing about this not, as you'd expect me to say, the anti-Islamic nature of it, but its sheer blind ignorance. But you're not alone: such views are only too often expressed about foreigners' supposed inability/refusal to integrate. Consider this, for example:"[These people] have no right to isolate themselves from [the English]. They should hasten to assimilate themselves completely."Or this:"While first-generation immigrants [struggle] with the unfamiliar aspects of life in a new land - new laws, new habits, new resentments, new everything - their children [are] energetically groomed to become purposeful members of what for their parents was merely a refuge ... This is a now-familiar paradigm  which popular opinion prefers to ignore: the children of migrants, lacking financial capital of their own,devote themselves to the acquisition of knowledge, which converts into affluence when they become the bankers, lawyers and doctors of migrant folklore."Or this:"The island of aliens in the sea of English life is small today. It is growing. Rule by foreign [immigrants] is being set up. The best forma of our national life are already in jeopardy."Sound familiar? It would, if you were to take the trouble to look beyond the very recent past instead of indulging your prejudices. All three are taken from Robert Winder's "Bloody Foreigners: The story of immigration to Britain" (Little,Brown, 2004), and they refer to Jewish immigrants in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The first quote is from the Jewish Chronicle in 1880 and the third, from an odious character called Arnold White, writing in 1901.So your trope is a very old and tired one, and I suggest you try to attenuate your ignorance by reading Winder's book; there's a copy in the library.

Richard Carter ● 2692d

Fraser you are spot on with your analysis.Unfortunately because the Left can't debate this difficult subject matter they just throw insults around on social media like 'Racist' and 'Islamophobe' at people that raise their concerns.Much like what Richard does to me on here.The daft thing is that race and colour have nothing to do with a religion.There are many white British Jihadi converts in heavily dominated Muslim cities like Luton.I had a lovely private message from a Lady this morning thanking me for raising awareness of the Quilliam foundation yesterday on the forum. She apologised for not supporting my post on the thread, but said she was reluctant to support me on the thread and then getting labelled by others.It says a lot about this forum unfortunately.But my thanks to the Lady, she put a huge smile on my face when I read her message this morning.As expected none of the Lefties on here had anything to say about the Quilliam foundation yesterday and what a wonderful job Maajid Nawaz is doing trying to eradicate Radical Islam.Regarding Sikhs and Hindus. They are lovely peaceful people. I had a Sikh and Hindu family in the same street, close by growing up as a child in the suburbs and they were fantastic neighbours. They used to welcome us in their home for some home cooked food.They have come to this country and they are thankful for the opportunity they have been given and they integrate.Unfortunately the Quran encourages Muslims not to mix with non believers, namely Christians and Jews.As i previously mentioned my Sikh friend is as British as I am and he loves this country as much as I do.People don't realise that some Sikh and Hindu girls have been caught up in the grooming gang scandals in the UK, so it wasn't just the white kids affected.I doubt you will get a reply on here from anyone from the Left. They won't touch this subject. In fact they probably think you are an Islamophobe now as well as me! On social media many from the Left welcome back ISIS fighters to the UK and think they deserve a second chance.This is the sad society we live in.

Paul Game ● 2690d

"the Jewish community has never threatened the indigenous population here, unlike radical Muslims do."But you are comparing a whole community with just the radicals of another community.From the Wikipedia article on The Siege of Sidney Street":-"In the 19th century Russian Empire was home to about five million Jews, the largest Jewish community at the time. Subjected to religious persecution and violent pogroms, many emigrated and between 1875 and 1914 around 120,000 arrived in the United Kingdom, mostly in England. The influx reached its peak in the late 1890s when large numbers of Jewish immigrants—mostly poor and semi-skilled or unskilled—settled in the East End of London. The concentration of Jewish immigrants into some areas was almost 100 per cent of the population, and a study undertaken in 1900 showed that Houndsditch and Whitechapel were both identified as a "well-defined intensely Jewish district". Some of the expatriates were revolutionaries, many of whom were unable to adapt to life in the politically less oppressive London. The social historian William J. Fishman writes that "the meschuggena (crazy) Anarchists were almost accepted as part of the East End landscape"; the terms "socialist" and "anarchist" had been conflated in the British press, who used the terms interchangeably to refer to those with revolutionary beliefs. A leading article in The Times described the Whitechapel area as one that "harbours some of the worst alien anarchists and criminals who seek our too hospitable shore. And these are the men who use the pistol and the knife." From the turn of the century, gang warfare persisted in the Whitechapel and Aldgate areas of London between groups of Bessarabians and refugees from Odessa, and various revolutionary factions were active in the area. One event, the Tottenham Outrage of January 1909, by two revolutionary Russians in London—Paul Helfeld and Jacob Lepidus—was an attempt to rob a payroll van, which left two dead and twenty injured. The event used a tactic often employed by revolutionary groups in Russia: the expropriation or theft of private property to fund radical activities. The influx of émigrés, and the rising rates of violent crime associated with it, led to popular concerns and comments in the press. The government passed the Aliens Act 1905 in an attempt to reduce immigration. The popular press reflected the opinions of many at the time; a leading article in The Manchester Evening Chronicle supported the bill to bar "the dirty, destitute, diseased, verminous and criminal foreigner who dumps himself on our soil". The journalist Robert Winder, in his examination of immigration into Britain, opines that the Act "gave official sanction to xenophobic reflexes which might ... have remained dormant"."

David Ainsworth ● 2690d

Lucille, with regards you last paragraph, I didn't mean literally attacking me. More as a mechanism for defence to coin a phrase you and Ivonne go on the attack to try and make it look like im telling #fakenews I know your tactic. It's a typical tactic of the Left.It's a left tactic to stifle and shut down debate. You both say stuff like i'm losing the plot, i'm losing my marbles because you don't want to hear the truth. (Im not offended by this reaction from you both so don't think I am)Are you saying Chantal and myself are lying when we talk about what is going on in France? Jews leaving by the thousands every year because they feel under threat.Yellow vests protests been going on for 6 months now, loads of street violence and Police brutality. Nothing ever on the BBC news about it because the BBC are trying to preserve the image that all is fine and dandy in the EU.Catholic and Christian churches being vandalised and burnt down by the hundreds each year in France. Nothing on the BBC news about this. France is our nearest neighbour so shouldn't BBC be covering this? Of course not, they don't want the public to see the EU project isn't working. Please don't tell me im making it up. Google it, article after article about the churches being burnt down you can read online.But Lucille, if you two guys want to be in denial about what is happening that is fine, but it is pointless keep batting this back and forward to each other. You have your view of France and Europe through your rose tinted glasses and I have mine so lets agree to disagree as we clearly don't agree at all about what is going on.

Paul Game ● 2690d

'you and Ivonne go on the attack to try and make it look like im telling #fakenews I know your tactic. It's a typical tactic of the Left.' Ha ha!!!I'm not a leftie nor do I shut down debate, Paul. Meanwhile some facts in answer to some of your points:'Yellow vests protests been going on for 6 months now, loads of street violence and Police brutality. 'These  protests are dying a natural death - the number of yellow vests in Paris last Saturday was between 200 and 300 and they smashed up a few  shop windows, cars etc. C'est la vie.And speaking of 'thousands': ''Jews leaving by the thousands every year because they feel under threat.'From official Jewish Agency figures (the agency works with Jews in the diaspora and encourages/helps them to leave their home country for another one, usually Israel).While the perception of Jews fleeing France persists, more recently the number has fallen almost as dramatically. The number of Jewish people who left France in 2015 remained relatively flat, at 7,328. More recently, the Jewish Agency reported that immigration from France to Israel was 3,424 in 2017, down down another 28% from 2016. I can't speak for  the issue of Catholic churches being vandalised, no-one knows. Why is this such an issue for you?  Do you think France is still a Catholic state? In 1905 the state became separated from the Church and France became a secular state. Fortunately, so it no longer has power.I' m not the one with rose-coloured glasses Paul. I let facts speak for themselves.

Lucille Grant ● 2690d

'you and Ivonne go on the attack to try and make it look like im telling #fakenews I know your tactic. It's a typical tactic of the Left.' Ha ha!!!I'm not a leftie nor do I shut down debate, Paul. Meanwhile some facts in answer to some of your points:'Yellow vests protests been going on for 6 months now, loads of street violence and Police brutality. 'These  protests are dying a natural death - the number of yellow vests in Paris last Saturday was between 200 and 300 and they smashed up a few  shop windows, cars etc. C'est la vie.And speaking of 'thousands': ''Jews leaving by the thousands every year because they feel under threat.'From official Jewish Agency figures (the agency works with Jews in the diaspora and encourages/helps them to leave their home country for another one, usually Israel).While the perception of Jews fleeing France persists, more recently the number has fallen almost as dramatically. The number of Jewish people who left France in 2015 remained relatively flat, at 7,328. More recently, the Jewish Agency reported that immigration from France to Israel was 3,424 in 2017, down down another 28% from 2016. I can't speak for  the issue of Catholic churches being vandalised, no-one knows. Why is this such an issue for you?  Do you think France is still a Catholic state? In 1905 the state became separated from the Church and France became a secular state. Fortunately, so it no longer has power.I' m not the one with rose-coloured glasses Paul. I let facts speak for themselves.

Lucille Grant ● 2690d

I can see why a Conservative might wish for the word Islamophobia to be abandoned:-"The YouGov poll of Conservative Party members, for the anti-racist campaign group Hope Not Hate, found that 40% of members wanted limits on the number of people of the Islamic faith entering the country, as opposed to just 5% who want to see fewer Christians or Jewish people.The poll also found that:43% of Conservative Party members "would prefer to not have the country led by a Muslim."45% believe that "there are areas in Britain in which non-Muslims are not able to enter."67% believe that "there are areas in Britain that operate under Sharia law."39% believe that "Islamist terrorists reflect a widespread hostility to Britain amongst the Muslim community.""https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-muslim-islamophobia-among-conservative-party-members-boris-johnson-leadership-2019-6?r=US&IR=T"Conservative Party members under investigation for posting alleged Islamophobic comments online can still chose the next UK prime minister. Party chairman Brandon Lewis has defended the decision not to strip potentially dozens of people of their voting rights."https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/04/tory-members-investigated-islamophobia-will-choose-next-prime-minister-10113347/Meanwhile, at the end of May, "The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) has issued a formal request to the UK’s human rights watchdog [Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC)], calling for it to investigate complaints of alleged Islamophobia within the Conservative Party." https://rightsinfo.org/muslim-council-of-britain-islamophobia-probe/

David Ainsworth ● 2687d

My wife’s family came to Europe in the 70s. They’re Arab, educated, integrated and Muslim.Fast forward to the early 90s and they didn’t want my wife to study in London. Why? Muslim extremism on campus. Lo and behold, when in London, the fundis approached her.In fact, much of the Muslim world regards ‘British Islam’ as primitive and extreme. Why? Because, in large part, that’s exactly what it is.Anti-gay and anti-Jew are mainstream Muslim views in the UK, not marginal ones. The more Muslim the UK becomes, the less Jewish, gay, liberal and free it will become in response.Race, religion and ideology have been stirred together to blunt the expression of critical thought. Anti-blasphemy's snuck in again through the back door. No-go areas now exist in Western cities, policing permitted with the consent of ‘community leaders’.This is largely a legacy of imported Islam, hostile to the culture it's moved to.What did the people of Britain and Europe do to deserve this? We accept the very best and the absolute dregs – but don’t seem to care and lack the courage to even try and tell the difference.---My family’s part of a little diaspora of educated, middle class Muslims – doctors, diplomats, academics, journalists, bankers, soldiers. We’re critical of large scale Muslim immigration here too – because we recognise much of the Islamic world is in a degenerate stage of its development (including mainstream British Islam). I don’t want my kids going to mosques in this country, for example, because I can’t trust what they’ll hear. Wandsworth has an honourable exception in the Ahmadiyya mosque (“love for all, hatred for none”) – but they’re considered heretics by mainstream Islam and have airport-style security to protect them from other Muslims. An Afghan refugee friend’s writing about his escape and journey to the UK. He’s been threatened in London by the very same type of people he escaped from back home – the police didn’t want to know. My wife’s childhood friend – an Egypto-Syrian doctor in Berlin – sees the same in refugee centres over there. An American friend was beaten up in East London (“F*ck off, this is a Muslim estate!”) – the police didn’t want to know, even after 20-odd similar attacks. It’s as if Muslims are held to lower standards than Christians, Jews, agnostics and atheists. It’s as though we’re all expected to think, feel and act the same – with almost any bad behaviour ignored to keep the peace.It’s bad enough many people don’t want to even consider the problem exists – even worse when they call you ‘racist’ or Islamophobic for raising the issue.P.S. If you want to understand the origins of the word ‘Islamophobia’, learn Arabic. Thy found useful idiots in the West to take the concept and run with it.P.P.S. Said it here before – when we married at an English mosque, the imam’s advice to me was “Try not to hit your wife”. Can you imagine the local Catholic padre giving such advice to the newly married?

Fraser Pearce ● 2686d

Fraser, that is a very brave post you wrote especially on this Liberal bias forum. Respect to you. At least you are in a great position to talk about your experiences with your background.Much like Maajid Nawaz and the Muslim Quillium foundation, who express similar concerns to you. Unfortunately many on here, many in the country and most in parliament bury their heads in the sand and shout 'Islamophobe' at anyone that tries to debate the problem of Radical Islam.Take Lord Pearson for instance in the House of Lords. So far, the bubble of Putney has been largely unaffected by this imported extremism to the UK.With the obvious direction this is going, with all the radical teachings in many mosques, i'm sure within the next few decades it will affect Putney too.It will be too late to stop when the Liberals finally realise there is a problem.We needed to have addressed this in the past, and stopped this at source many years ago, but instead we have imported Extremism with our soft immigration policies for too long now.We even welcome back into the UK hundreds of ISIS fighters. You couldn't make it up!I think it has gone past the point of no return now.It is a hot potato, no one in authority will touch it.Im actually glad it's kicking off in Birmingham as the LGBT community might start to realise that although they support this particular ethnic minority group, this particular group won't support them as it's clearly a sin to be gay in the Quran.Sorry if i'm speaking out of turn, as you are much better placed than me to advise on this?As I said previously, I'm praying Maajid Nawaz and the Quillium foundation grow in size, and I'm hoping the government give them a bigger role to play in society to try to stem this. Im also sorry i'm repeating much of what I have previously said, but I wanted to show my support for your courage in speaking out. I would like to point out that I am not talking about individual Muslims, I am talking about an outdated ideology that doesn't fit with our modern culture.

Paul Game ● 2686d

"No-go areas now exist in Western cities"Do you have a list or a map? It might be handy sometime.“Fox News host Jeanine Pirro spoke with self-styled terrorism expert Steve Emerson:Emerson began his set of remarks by claiming a number of Muslim no-go zones existed in areas of the U.S., England, France, and other western countries. According to Emerson, “Sharia law” essentially overrode the laws of the countries in which said zones were located, and local police avoided interceding in the affected areas:"Well these no go zones exist not only in France, but they exist throughout Europe. They’re sort of amorphous, they’re not contiguous necessarily, but they’re sort of safe havens and they’re places where the governments like France, Britain, Sweden, Germany don’t exercise any sovereignty. So you basically have zones where Shariah courts were set up, where Muslim density is very intense, where the police don’t go in, and where it’s basically a separate country almost, a country within a country.Emerson continued by insinuating authorities in areas as France and the UK denied the existence of no-go zones in their countries and claimed the entire city of Birmingham, England, was one such example of a no-go zone in which “non-Muslim” residents were not permitted:In Britain, it’s not just no go zones, there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in. And parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire. So there’s a situation that Western Europe is not dealing with.In response, British Prime Minister David Cameron termed Emerson “a complete idiot”:An American “terrorism expert” who claimed that Birmingham is a Muslim-only city is “clearly a complete idiot”, David Cameron has said.The Prime Minister said he choked on his porridge after hearing the claim by Steve Emerson, a Fox News pundit, that non-Muslims “simply don’t go” to Britain’s second-largest city.Mr Emerson issued a grovelling apology after issuing the claim.Mr Cameron said: “Frankly I choked on my porridge and thought it must be April’s Fools Day. This guy is clearly a complete idiot.“He started with an apology. That’s not a bad start. But what he should do is look at Birmingham and see what a fantastic example it is bringing people together of different faiths and different backgrounds and building a world-class brilliant city with a great and strong economy.”Shortly after the segment aired, Emerson fully retracted his claims about Birmingham and issued an apology in a statement published on his web site:I have clearly made a terrible error for which I am deeply sorry. My comments about Birmingham were totally in error. And I am issuing this apology and correction for having made this comment about the beautiful city of Birmingham. I do not intend to justify or mitigate my mistake by stating that I had relied on other sources because I should have been much more careful. There was no excuse for making this mistake and I owe an apology to every resident of Birmingham. I am not going to make any excuses. I made an inexcusable error. And I am obligated to openly acknowledge that mistake. I wish to apologize for all residents of that great city of Birmingham.Steve EmersonPS. I am making donation to Birmingham Children’s Hospital."https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sharia-law-muslim-no-go-zones/https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/fearless-security-expert-risks-life-venturing-london-sharia-no-go-zone-7288616/

David Ainsworth ● 2685d