Forum Topic

Democracy in the EU ... and in the UK

Ursula von der Leyen has just been elected President of the European Commission by the European Parliament, which was freely elected by universal suffrage in a democratic choice.On the other hand, the next Prime Minister of the UK will be chosen by something over 150,000 (no one seems to know the exact number) self-selected, mainly elderly, mainly white, mainly male, mainly reactionary Conservative Party members in a wholly undemocratic choice.The Brexiteers so often claim that the EU is undemocratic, but these two facts give the lie to that.

Richard Carter ● 2675d15 Comments

And Gordon Brown wasn't even elected it was  uncontested. .

Andy Pike ● 2675d

Indeed, and similarly with May in 2016: there were others, but they variously were knifed or fell out as a result of their own incompetence.

Richard Carter ● 2675d

When and if Labour chooses their new Leader I wouldn't expect to be included as one of his voters. Nor would I want to be. I personally when I vote, in an election, don't vote for a party leader but for the policies of the party.I assume the MPs concerned will make an informed choice. Wasn't particularly keen on Heath, but Tories were my party and whosoever led the opposition didn't matter, their views weren't mine. I can't understand the argument of only X amount of people are valid to vote.  Perhaps more people should have voted Labour in the first place and then this situation wouldn't have arisen

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2675d

Tou cannot argue with that logic

Andy Pike ● 2675d

I thought this post was meant to show how democratic the EU is compared to the current UK's party political leadership contests are.Gordon Brown and May's selections were widely "condemned".  The current leadership contest is, as far as I am concerned, unacceptable.  Why?  Unlike the previous two, the future of the country is at stake, and a frighteningly one too.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2675d

Well, we do vote for political parties and not leaders, I agree.But I seem to remember Johnson scathing against Gordon Brown becoming a leader after Tony Blair.  There were also many mutterings under the breath regarding Theresa May's appointment as was Ian Duncan-Smith's. The main difference between the current one and the ones in the past is that the future of the country was not really at stake then - but it is now.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2675d

We could perhaps adopt the French system of voting which seems fairer to me than our enablement of the members of the ruling party (however small  the membership eg 160K!) can foist a PM on the  whole of the country. I didn't like it when  Brown, nor May, became PM under their party rules  and I sure as hell don't like it now. I felt disenfranchised, and still do.

Lucille Grant ● 2675d

This thread has rather diverged from the point which, to remind all, is that the EU is rather more democratic than our benighted country - which still, incredibly, has an upper house containing some 90-odd hereditary peers who, astonishingly, are voted in by other hereditary peers. So I hope we won't be hearing too many more gripes that the EU is, supposedly, undemocratic.

Richard Carter ● 2675d

Meanwhile, really shocking news: Sky News reports that Johnson is considering a plan to suspend Parliament in October to force through a no-deal Brexit without Parliament's consent. Is this what people expected when they said that we were "taking back control"? https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-team-considering-plan-to-suspend-parliament-in-run-up-to-brexit-11764347

Richard Carter ● 2674d

It could be argued that Boris is 'taking back control' from undemocratic remainers and putting into practice what the country voted for democratically, to 'take back control' from the EU

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2674d

Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution. It makes Parliament the supreme legal authority in the UK, which can create or end any law. Generally, the courts cannot overrule its legislation and no Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change.https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/role/sovereignty/

Clare Noeken ● 2674d

Indeed, it would be a funny kind of taking back control that deliberately shut out Parliament. Agreed there's a conflict here between Parliamentary rule and rule by plebiscite, and the only way to resolve that would be to hold a confirmatory referendum once the terms are known. What are the Leavers afraid of?

Richard Carter ● 2674d

Nigel Farage complains about the narrow margin of victory for Ursula von der Leyen after she wins 52% of vote! Honestly, the lack of self-awareness in this man is staggering.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ursula-von-der-leyen-brexit-party-vote-eu-commission-juncker-a9008501.html

Richard Carter ● 2673d

Tee, and, if I may be so bold, hee!

David Ainsworth ● 2673d

I think Farage always wanted a better result than the 52/48.I wonder if he wants the Venezuelan-style of election results of 57% if not 74%......

Ivonne Holliday ● 2673d