Forum Topic

Hope For Harry Dunn's Parents?

The US diplomat's wife involved in a crash which killed teenager Harry Dunn does not have diplomatic immunity, the Foreign Office has said.Harry's parents, Charlotte Charles and Tim Dunn, were informed of the development in a letter from the Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab.http://news.sky.com/story/diplomats-wife-devastated-and-wants-to-meet-harry-dunns-parents-11833917

Sue Hammond ● 2587d16 Comments

Mmm. Sue.  Sorry to be cynical but this looks like Raab and co (including Johnson,Trump et al) saying this is no longer a political issue so it's up to the police, CPS and courts to  deal  with knowing full well it's virtually impossible to  extradite a US citizen. 

Michael Ixer ● 2586d

Sue. It does appear that since the 2003 UK/US extradition treaty was signed it may be easier to request extradition from the US  but I could see a US lawyer in a US court making a good case that all the publicity in the press means there couldn't be a fair trial, which is one of the extradition tests before someone can be extradited from the US to the UK.

Michael Ixer ● 2586d

Mike, I agree - I don't see a lot of hope either. So much for  the friendship between Boris and Trump sorting this out, neither of whom know the word diplomacy.

Lucille Grant ● 2586d

I thought I read the lady in question had offered to meet the parents.

Barbara Stevens ● 2586d

Yes, her attorney has said she'd like to meet the parents while they're over in the US. 

Michael Ixer ● 2586d

I doubt the woman will ever return to the UK to face justice, but if she did, for e.g. "Causing death by careless driving", with no aggravating factors, the penalty could be in the range of 9-month prison sentence, probably suspended, or a community order, coupled with loss of licence and maybe a fine. A rational US legal system (maybe one day?) would consider this likely penalty, versus the reputational damage of a US citizen being seen to be above the local laws, and would conclude it was better to send her back (or better still, not whisk her out of the country in the first place — the UK is not Mogadishu). I'd like to know if it was the woman who initiated the flight to the US or the authorities on the US base. It wouldn't surprise me if this is standard US policy regardless of who is running their country

Sean Hodges ● 2586d

It is also true to say that diplomatic immunity applies only to diplomats and their families when they are abroad, not in their country.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2586d

Having a suspicious mind and looking at the facts as reported ...Original reports said the family had left the UK. Today's report said she left on a US transport plane.
The husband is a diplomat stationed at an airbase, not a consulate or embassy. Although not relevant other than why the family had diplomatic immunity I've not see any mention of what her husband's position was.
Being suspicious I say he worked for an agency that does, shall we say, covert "diplomatic" work and the family were whisked away to avoid further publicity.
That didn't work! Perhaps the US was hoping the UK would cooperate? But, did Johnson and Raab see it as a useful distraction from other events? Or were they unaware of the activities of diplomats on airbase?Could be wrong, though.

Michael Ixer ● 2586d

TBH i dont understand why DI exists, especially when its extended to family members and with countries who are signed up to human rightsA few years ago by Hoovers in Ealing a kid was stabbed to death by a 19 year old Colombian who also happened to be the son of a diplomat and again he was able to leave the UK without charge under the same legislation. Why is this allowed? They are the ones wanted to have diplomats in the UK its not as if we are asking them to be here

Emarisa Battoia ● 2586d

@Michael 23.56Before this link was on the Sky News site last night I had already heard it as breaking news on Radio 5 Live, and the presenter was actually speaking to this lady's lawyer.  He (the lawyer) raised the point that she only had diplomatic immunity during the time she was actually in the U.K. but lost it when she left, so in effect she deprived herself from still having it. He also confirmed that his client would like to meet Harry's parents but didn't specify where that meeting would take place.

Sue Hammond ● 2586d

@Sue. I'm not disputing that by leaving the UK her DI has lapsed, irrespective of whether it was her or the US administration's idea she should leave, but it does mean the UK would now have to apply for extradition unless she returns to the UK voluntarily, which seems unlikely. Ultimately, I believe the US  secretary of state could block extradition even if the judiciary were to agree (not sure about that, perhaps someone else knows more about extradition law).Sadly, from what's been in the press, it does seem to have been an inadvertent action with horrendous consequences rather than a deliberate infringement of the law?

Michael Ixer ● 2586d

apparently the US personnel (and families) at the airbase have had DI since 1994 under a special arrangement with the UK government.

Adam Tripp ● 2586d

@Adam. Interesting, thanks. 

Michael Ixer ● 2586d

I watched the Dunn family interview from NY on Sky. I thought they were thoroughly decent people. Also articulate in very sad circumstances.Of course they won't meet Sacoolas in the US as that sets a precedent they don't expect her to return to the UK.Who ever advised her to flee gave a really bad piece of advice. If she'd have stayed and faced our justice she'd have got a light sentence and the news would have been just another road accident hardly worthy of page 5. As it is she's now in the spotlight and pretty much a pariah.

Simon Knight ● 2585d

Agreed, and it puts a crimp in her husband's career — I wonder if we would be able to request her extradition from another european country? Is she now effectively trapped in the US?

Sean Hodges ● 2584d

Wouldn't surprise me if hubby suggested the flee/diplomatic status option.Don't see how, even without Brexit.Probably not but the UK won't be her first holiday choice.

Simon Knight ● 2584d