Forum Topic

General election own goal by Remain parties

With 406 Leave constituencies and only 242 Remain constituencies (66% against 34%) I believe it's a huge own goal for the Remain parties to agree to this GE.I'm absolutely thrilled to bits myself, as it gives the Leave constituencies their chance to kick out the anti-Democratic Remain MPs in these constituencies who have disobeyed their instruction.No wonder many Remain MPs are furious that their Leaders have voted for this election. It's Turkeys voting for Christmas.Bring it on! Woohoo.....

Paul Game ● 2570d55 Comments

Paul, I hope you're right.  There seem to be so many remainers, some on this forum, who want to revoke Article 50.  In that case, what is the point of voting for anything???  Don't like the result, sulk and then insist it has to be voted again … and again?... and again?

Bunny Payne ● 2570d

Yes I agree with your analysis Paul.I watched the podcast you posted earlier and it was interesting that Rod Liddle said he has many Remainer friends, and he went on to say if there was a 2nd referendum everyone of them have told him they would vote for Brexit the 2nd time in order to uphold democracy for the sake of the country.

Mike Essam ● 2570d

Yes Mike, there are still plenty of honourable Remainers out there in the country.

Paul Game ● 2570d

Not the most frequent posters here though ;-)

Mike Warman ● 2570d

I'm surprised you're all so keen. The deal negotiated by Boris really isnt that bad for remainers. Ok we lose freedom of movement but you leavers dont get control of our fishing waters which I thought was a huge deal for you all? If you want a free trade deal with the EU there wont be any significant deviation from EU rules so surely you can't be too happy about that either?

Matt Palmer ● 2570d

@Bunny and Mike W.Yes agree with you both about this forum lolFair play to John Hawkes though, who said last week he thinks Brexit should be honoured and also a female Remainer has previously said the same thing on here.Unfortunately the London elites of Putney think they know better than the 66% of constituencies from the rest of the country who voted Brexit.Im really excited about the GE. It will completely change the arithmetic of parliament for the better.

Paul Game ● 2570d

oh Paul you ignored me!Is that coz you just cant face up to the reality that the deal is rubbish for leavers?

Matt Palmer ● 2570d

If the deal "really isn't that bad for remainers" why are you all moaning about leaving Matt? 😉

Sue Hammond ● 2570d

You should check my recent posts Sue, I haven't moaned at all since it was announced that we'll basically be subject to EU standards and working conditions etc if we want that trade deal :)I'd have thought you'd be far more annoyed that Boris gave up on the fishing rights issue

Matt Palmer ● 2570d

@Matt As I said last week I admire Boris for getting the EU back around the table after threatening them with no deal. Something the so called experts said couldn't happen. For me though I want the Brexit party to win the GE with a majority and Farage to become PM.He is the only person that will give us a clean cut Brexit.

Paul Game ● 2570d

I'm inclined to agree with you Paul, I don't think Boris' deal is particularly good for leavers at all. I suppose it could almost be described as a compromise between leave and remain

Matt Palmer ● 2570d

@Matt For me we have to get our fishing waters back. We have let the EU kill our fishing Industry and a clean cut Brexit is the only way we are going to get back control.

Paul Game ● 2570d

yes, I completely agree. (not with the EU comment obv) but I agree if you want to get that level of control Farage is your only hope.

Matt Palmer ● 2570d

In many ways I agree Paul, and with Matt.I think this is definitely better than Theresa Mays limbo but I am still not that keen.Not about fishing to me Matt, it’s about having control rest in a body such as parliament that is subject to local uk votor approval, ie the dreaded sovereignty word.  As a subsection of that I would say that British fishers should have primacy in access to uk waters as they did before our parents generation took us into the EEC on poor terms, but I would be willing to see a compromise.BJ’s agreement still compromises too far and the EU have been dreadful is refusing to discuss the future relationship.  Interesting to see how the parties line up though, so whether remain and leave alliances form, and whether specifically Boris has to have some agreement with a Nigel Farage and accept a purer brexit as a result.Must admit hard to totally trust Mr Johnson, especially after May’s volts face

Mike Warman ● 2570d

Sorry which parties do you consider leave?Please bear in mind that the referendum was for the UK.

Ed Robinson ● 2570d

Just this really. A General Election will not resolve the issue of Brexit.Amazing that the ERG has let Johnson get away without flunking out of the EU on the 31st of October as he promised to do. His WAD didn't go far enough for them nor for Farage. Wonder how the  #Brexit Party will play this election. Fascinating if also disturbing.I am reminded of Ted Heath calling a General Election in 1974 resulting in a hung Parliament followed by a dire decade which heralded the rise of Margaret Thatcher.

Lucille Grant ● 2570d

@Matt 19.41Sorry I've not been on here much lately so didn't know you'd stopped moaning Matt.😸 I am not overjoyed about Boris' deal but it's a start to just get us out and then the serious negotiations can start. So much can change in the transition period so we'll wait and see.Election date now confirmed to be 12th so now it can go to the HoL for them to pick over.

Sue Hammond ● 2570d

Can you say the UK is leaving under Boris’ deal?Do you consider Northern Ireland to be leaving?Was the referendum not for the whole of the UK?Seems to go a bit quiet when these type of questions are asked!

Ed Robinson ● 2570d

@Paul"For me though I want the Brexit party to win the GE with a majority and Farage to become PM."Me too! Or at least in coalition with Boris. Will be great to have Farage in Parliament at long last! So pleased that Hammond and Gauck didn't have the Whip restored this evening! 😂

Sue Hammond ● 2570d

Brexit party = Clean cut BrexitBoris/Tory Brexit = Soft Brexit but better than May's.Lib Dems = No BrexitLabour = I haven't got a clue what Brexit they want!

Paul Game ● 2570d

I can't believe Rod Liddle has many friends of any sort.

Michael Winstanley ● 2570d

Yes Sue, so exciting. After the election we won't have to listen to the anti-Democrats in parliament anymore like Phillip Hammond, David Gauke, Dominic Greeve, Nicolas Soames, Anna Soubry and also many Labour MPs too. Woohoo......Democracy will win!

Paul Game ● 2570d

“I am reminded of Ted Heath calling a General Election in 1974 resulting in a hung Parliament followed by a dire decade which heralded the rise of Margaret Thatcher”So took a few years but led to the greatest leader the tory party has had in most of our lifetimes, indeed I would say the only great leader.  Made a supporter of me, although I was well below voting page when she was elected.  Looking back at their leaders since they have been generally disappointing, and sadly it’s only the Labour Party that has kept me voting Tory of late.Interesting to see how the politics of today’s fractures and changes voting patterns going forwards

Mike Warman ● 2570d

“Woohoo......Democracy will win!”Let’s hope so Paul!Time of possibility for all now, before any disillusion sets in.Would be nice to see support moving to the brexit party to put some pressure on Johnson though

Mike Warman ● 2570d

It will be very interesting to see the voting pattern of the upcoming GE.If voters transfer their Brexit vote to the GE then in theory the current two thirds Remain MPs should go down to one third, but it won't necessarily work like that.Im hopeful 60% of seats will be Tory and Brexit party.Interested to hear your considered thoughts?

Paul Game ● 2570d

The way I see itBoris/Tory = England, Wales & Scotland Exit. NI stays behind.Given the referendum was for the UK, I don’t see how anyone can argue that there is a mandate for that. We can’t say to Scotland it was a UK referendum then make different rules for different parts.

Ed Robinson ● 2570d

Hard to tell Paul until we find out whether the tories accept some type of agreement with the brexit party.I think initially they will go alone with Johnson’s deal, but I hope polling points then toward a pact based around a clean break.Given he’s put so much energy into his “great” deal though I wonder if there will be any co-operation and therefore whether the election becomes a lot closer.One positive thing though that should come is that many of the Tory or ex Tory  hardcore remainers (grieve, soubry Allen and co )should be gone so I think it should become clearer down party lines.I will say I think Farage has called things well ever since chequers so be interesting to hear his views opens positioning over the next week - he has some tough decisions to make I think if Johnson won’t play ball.

Mike Warman ● 2570d

Farage is sounding more like PM material every time I hear him.He has stuck to his guns and is the only party leader who has been true to his word.If Boris does a deal with him it is a win/win situation for both parties. #cleanbreakBrexit

Paul Game ● 2570d

Mike - Thatcher came to power because of the dire Labour policies and Unions that Corbyn still represents and supports. Sadly many  poorer people who lost jobs because of Thatcher's policies haven't forgotten and in many cases their communities have still not recovered because Governments (both Conservative and Labour) left them to rot.

Lucille Grant ● 2570d

Without a proper written constitution that safeguards sovereignty, what some people consider a gain can be simply traded away in the near future.You only got to look at fishing rights. Even if we got them back how long would this and future governments kept them?

Ed Robinson ● 2570d

I agree with you Ed Robinson.It is interesting to see the reaction against Scotland as it has always been very vociferous against Brexit while NI - also a remain country - was not and, to top this, it agreed to a coalition government with the conservatives.Politics do work in very mysterious ways!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2570d

Just to remind you - it’s the “London Elites of Putney” who are subsidising the rest of the country. What we need is a Lexit! Londoners should have the right to take back control of the Capital’s sovereignty. The amount we send to the provinces is unbelievable. What kind of democracy allows everyone with their hands in London’s pocket to determine how our money is spent. We need an independent London. The rest of the country sees no affinity to London anyway.

Andrew Thomas ● 2570d

I wouldn't like to make predictions. The polls would indicate that Johnson should romp home; however, look at how they got it wrong in 2017 when Mrs May lost all those seats. Farage has a single issue to campaign on, I suspect Johnson won't want to get too close to him, though. I understand some business organisation are wary of Johnson because of his "F*** Business" statement comment and see him as a wild card; they're also against a no deal Brexit. So Johnson is unlikely to upset business more by doing a deal with Farage. Why, apparently some business organisations are seeing the LibDems as more stable than the Tories; not important for direct funding but might affect where donations and support are channelled? The other unknown is how much people really care about Brexit compared with issues that affect them directly such as the poor implementation of Universal Credit and NHS waiting list? Finally, the Brexit party are hoping to grab leave voters from both Labour and Conservative leavers, and the LibDems from both parties' remain voters. I suspect Northern Ireland won't changes much: Sinn Fein seem to  like the Johnson Deal - it puts a boundary down Irish sea - and for that reason the DUP hate it. I still suspect we'll end up with another hung parliament but perhaps this is one time astrology rather than hard maths might be more helpful!

Michael Ixer ● 2569d

The news that an independent think tank calculates that Brexit will cost the UK £70 billion in terms of lost growth over the next decade is exactly the sort of thing the government has been trying to suppress. The Party of Business is now the Little England Party.  Matt Hancock failed badly on R4 this morning in trying to convince listeners (and probably himself) that the Tories are still a One Nation party.  Not with Priti Patel, McVey, Raab et al in the cabinet.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2569d

There is a major problem with the Tory cabinet. First, so many have been exposed (and some fired) for ‘misleading’ (erm, openly lying, actually) government or the country. But secondly, and more importantly where business is concerned, these same people, Patel, McVey, Fox, etc, are just a bit thick. It’s very depressing. Less a case of the lunatics taking over the asylum, more the dullards taking over the college!

Andrew Thomas ● 2569d

Thicker than Diane Abbott ???

Andy Pike ● 2569d

Difficult choice there Andy!

Lucille Grant ● 2569d

It's an election full of difficult choices

Andy Pike ● 2569d

Of those four, Diane Abbott is the only one who went to Oxbridge.Of those four, Diane Abbott is the only one to win the Spectator Parliamentary Speech of the YearOf those four, Diane Abbott is the only one to have doubled their majority from one election to the next.In the last election Amnesty International found that she was the subject of almost half of all abusive tweets about female MPs on Twitter, receiving ten times more abuse than any other MP. That’s not really down to her intellect, is it?

Andrew Thomas ● 2569d

Doppelgänger can be the only explanation ...

Sue Hammond ● 2569d

You couldn't make it up. Just goes to show awards and exams prove f... all xx

Andy Pike ● 2569d

"Doppelgänger can be the only explanation …"Oooh there's posh! An umlaut!

David Ainsworth ● 2569d

"Just goes to show awards and exams prove f... all xx"A principle to which I adhere religiously when choosing a surgeon, a pilot, or indeed a parachute packer.

David Ainsworth ● 2569d

Only cos I copied it.😸

Sue Hammond ● 2569d

Would you let ms abbot pack your parachute  😂😂😂🥉🌼

Andy Pike ● 2569d

"Would you let ms abbot pack your parachute"An untrained parachute packer like Ms Abbott, I'd say not!No more than I would trust Mr Boris Johnson to crash me out of the EU and take me safely and at no personal cost "To a land where falls no rain nor hail nor driven snow".

David Ainsworth ● 2569d

"Would you let ms abbot pack your parachute"What a stupid, idiotic statement. No way I'd do a parachute jump. And even if I had to I'd expect it to be done by an expert. I'm sure Ms Abbot, like most of us, would admit we have no knowledge or skills of packing parachutes. Why make such a statement?

Michael Ixer ● 2569d

Bit of an over reaction to a lighthearted reply to David's comment .  Heh ho

Andy Pike ● 2568d

Andy. I was referring more to the idea of me doing parachutes jump. The point was possibly lost in my own thoughts about it 😱

Michael Ixer ● 2568d

Michael, maybe Brexit angst has stifled your soh?  You're not the only one affected. I do hope the GE settles the issue, one way or another.

Sue Hammond ● 2568d

Sue. Perhaps I had one glass too many celebrating no Brexit...

Michael Ixer ● 2568d

Indeed Michael! Has anyone see Boris dying in his ditch yet?

Lucille Grant ● 2568d

Paul, our fishermen sold their fishing rights. It was not the EU’s doing. It was the result of Thatcherite economic nonsense. What is the Brexiteer fetish with fish about?Also, Farage is on the EU fisheries committee but has hardly shown up to protect what has not been sold off.

Paul Settles ● 2568d

@Paul S. Thanks, as a veggie, near vegan, I've not really followed the fisheries aspect of the UK's EU membership. My understanding is the waters around the UK are overfished so from an ecological perspective, regardless of who is responsible, there needs to be a reduction in catches, but I may have misunderstood that as I havent followed it too closely.  What does interest me is Farage's non attendance at the EU fisheries committee to represent thge UK's interests. That rather confirms my belief that his only interest in Brexit is to further his own agenda and that of  his wealthy friends/donors to avoid the scrutiny of EU financial regulations. Unless he's suddenly gone veggie/vegan and believes fishing is a bad practice and, hence, wants to avoid anything to do with it?  

Michael Ixer ● 2568d

Because you have no awards, poor exams, but achieved exactly the same status in life as Diane Abbott?I think they prove a lot - but they are just the beginning - a springboard from which to make real achievements - whether it be a successful career, accumulating wealth or whatever. A life's work in the department of public whelks is hardly a position from which to look down on others.

Michael Winstanley ● 2566d