Forum Topic

Foot-in-mouth time

Leaving aside the alleged cabinet minister Alun Somebody (who seems to be unknown even in Wales, which he’s supposedly representing), there’s Johnson, today in the Telegraph, comparing Corbyn to Stalin: “The modern Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn … point their fingers at individuals with a relish and a vindictiveness not seen since Stalin persecuted the kulaks.” Blimey, I know Corbyn isn’t exactly a centrist, but to imagine him subjecting the rich to a version of the Holodomor (the 1930s famine in Ukraine) is a bit extreme even for Johnson, isn’t it?Then there’s the ineffable Rees-Mogg, proclaiming that what condemned the Grenfell residents to a terrible death was a lack of common sense (and the ridiculous Andrew Bridgen claims that Rees-Mogg is cleverer than they are/were). What crass insensitivity and, well, a lack of basic common sense in this over-educated/under-endowed with political intelligence representative of, what exactly? A man of the people as opposed to the metropolitan elite? I don’t think so.And, astonishingly, the government has added Rydon Construction (the firm that oversaw the refurbishment of Grenfell and is currently under investigation by the Metropolitan Police for its responsibility for the fire) to an official list of firms recommended to build high-rise housing: how utterly outrageous!Not a good beginning for the Tory election campaign!

Richard Carter ● 2562d36 Comments

Rees-Mogg and Bridgen showing what they really think of "common people"? Cairns following his leader in fibbing. I guess that's why they have to lie about someone like Starmer who sounds sensible and misrepresent what he says by editing videos ...https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/05/tories-unrepentant-about-doctored-video-of-keir-starmer-tv-appearance

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

Alongside Rees-Moggs disgraceful comment I found the Tory editing of the Starmer video the lowest of the low. How much further can the Tories descend I wonder? Dominic Cummings is following  in the footsteps of Steve Bannon and the result of the US Election that saw Trump gain power.

Lucille Grant ● 2562d

Starmer has them rattled, he's eloquent and sensible. Ress-Mogg et all produce the material for Labour without any editing 😶

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

@RichardCorbyn is a Marxist, nothing more to say.Regarding JRM. Trust you to over-egg the pudding 🙄 although I'm shocked that you're a day late posting about it.  JRM's comments were indeed clumsy but there was obviously no malice meant, and it would have been better for Bridgen to have kept his nose out of it.  If I was in a burning building my first instinct would be to get out of it pdq regardless of what anybody, including the LFB, was saying to the contrary.

Sue Hammond ● 2562d

"the Tory editing of the Starmer video the lowest of the low." Agree. Jonathan Swift (in The Examiner, Nov. 9, 1710): “Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it.”

David Ainsworth ● 2562d

It is horrible.  The conservatives have become a really despicable party.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2562d

@Sue. Johnson's comment was a slur comparing Corbyn with Stalin,a murdering dictator, rather than Marx, a political intellectual. As far as I know Jeremy Corbyn has always been a left wing Labour socialist, it was his brother, Piers, who once headed the Marxist group at Imperial College. 

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

The sad thing is, that in the midst of all this misinformation and stupid comments the reality is we live in the fifth wealthiest nation in the world yet many of the UK's citizens are working long hours - often working at more than one job - but barely earning enough to live; sometimes not even that, but having to resort to food banks or living in substandard houses 😟

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

The necessity of carrots and sticks apparently.

David Ainsworth ● 2562d

"If I was in a burning building my first instinct would be to get out of it pdq regardless of what anybody, including the LFB, was saying to the contrary."Really? You'd descend 24 floors in pitch dark through deadly smoke over who knows what hazards (including the bodies of those who had already succumbed) and against the advice of the Fire Brigade? How easy it is to pontificate from the safety of your Putney home on what you'd do in a situation of which you cannot realistically know anything? Rather like Rees-Mogg, for example. And there wasn't any over-egging, it wasn't necessary: a typical Hammond sneer.

Richard Carter ● 2562d

It's called defending the indefensible.

Freddie Francis ● 2562d

"If I was in a burning building my first instinct would be to get out of it pdq regardless of what anybody, including the LFB, was saying to the contrary."Understandable that anybody might. It might even in some cases increase your individual survival chances. It also might decrease the survival chances of others, and impede the firefighters (there was only one central staircase at Grenfell)."Ms Cotton said it was “completely understandable” that the stay put advice had been questioned. But she added:"Since 2014, there have been more than 5,000 high rise fires in London alone and in the vast majority of these incidents ‘stay put’ advice has been effective. It’s very important for people to know that.“We are talking about buildings that fail, rather than advice that fails and there is no clear alternative, which is why this research is needed.”The LFB said buildings like Grenfell Tower are not designed for mass evacuation during a fire as many have narrow staircases and no common alarm system."https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/london-fire-chief-calls-for-probe-into-stay-put-policy-and-reversal-of-20-years-of-neglect-63705

David Ainsworth ● 2562d

@Sue. Common sense instinctively tells me that surrounding a high rise building with inflammable cladding is creating a disaster waiting to happen. Actually, I think I could prove that scientifically if I put my mind to it. There is a suggestion that JRM was trying to bolster the feeling that the LFB was responsible for the deaths rather that the, at best, incompetence of the RBKC and their agents. Surely, JRM wouldn't do that, would he?

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

Alun Cairns has apparently resigned. He'll grab the news from Johnson's campaign launch 😶

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

@Richard. Although Alun Cairns is unknown this seems to be a serious matter. It's alleged that he, a cabinet minister, attempted to cover up for a friend who in turn tried to subvert - in fact, caused a retrial of - a rape case. A serious matter, as the victim was subjected to a retrial which found the rapist guilty. They obviously keep good company who they then try and cover for.  Appears there's good email evidence ...

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

Great line from Hugo Rifkind on Twitter on Rees-Mogg:-"The Mogg/Bridgen story reminds me of what Norman St John-Stevas said about Margaret Thatcher - "when she speaks without thinking, she says what she thinks"."--------------------------"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."(Matthew 15).

David Ainsworth ● 2562d

Mr CarterNot only was Bridgen saying that Rees Mogg is 'cleverer' than the residents of Grenfell Tower and the Fire Authorities, he also thinks the man deserves to be part of the Government and hence 'rule' over us because he iscleverer than the rest of us.'Asked by presenter Evan Davis if Mr Rees-Mogg was implying that he was cleverer than most people, Mr Bridgen replied: "But we want very clever people running the country, don't we, Evan? That is a by-product of what Jacob is and that is why he is in a position of authority."'Rees Mogg is actually a by-product of inherited wealth, an exclusive and expensive education and contacts amongst the metropolitan elite that his father was part of.Now obviously Bridgen thinks Rees Mogg is cleverer than him, but do the rest of us think him cleverer than us ?Please rank yourself on a cleverness scale where -Bridgen = 0 and Rees Mogg = 10.Oh, and aren't the Welsh Conservatives are a pretty nice group of people.Their Welsh Secretary lies and said he supported his 'friend' because did not know about him having been excoriated by a judge for deliberately bringing to a halt a rape trial to in turn help his friend.Such a friendly bunch !But also they have a candidate who tweeted that 'people on the reality TV show Benefits Street needed “putting down”. Nice.Wonder how that will play with the Welsh voters themselves on benefits.Still the comment might get some support from a few on this site who I recall suggested immigrants should be 'forced' to avoid having children in order to mitigate against climate change.Castration and sterilisation presumably.But coming back to Rees Mogg.Were he actually be living on the 27th floor of a tower block managed and refurbished with lethal materials by Conservative run Kensington and Chelsea Council (rather than in his £5M Westminster town house or his inherited Somerset country estate), I think he would have in practice not taken the advice he offers the dead.He would surely have sent Nanny down the stairwell to order his staff to come and rescue him and for the chauffeur to have the Bentley ready.

John Hawkes ● 2562d

'He would surely have sent Nanny down the stairwell to order his staff to come and rescue him and for the chauffeur to have the Bentley ready.'Best comment yet. Mr Hawkes, if you aren't on Twitter may I please use this?

Lucille Grant ● 2562d

Ms GrantApparently Cummings spent a lot of time in Russia after leaving university.Some are saying he was inadequately vetted on this count before being allowed into number 10.Sky News reports - 'A whistleblower has apparently come forward with "serious concerns" about the relationships Mr Cummings is said to have fostered while he worked in Russia during the 1990s'.And note that No 10 refused to clear the publication before the Election of a potentially incendiary report from a Parliamentary Select Committee examining Russian infiltration in British politics, including the Conservative party.Would it not be amusing were it to be found that Cummings and Corbyn the Marxist actually bumped into each other in Red Square !!

John Hawkes ● 2562d

"'Asked by presenter Evan Davis if Mr Rees-Mogg was implying that he was cleverer than most people, Mr Bridgen replied: "But we want very clever people running the country, don't we, Evan? That is a by-product of what Jacob is and that is why he is in a position of authority."'"It is in the breeding, old chap. ------------------------Michael Gove (2016):- “people in this country have had enough of experts”. 

David Ainsworth ● 2562d

Ms GrantI'd rather you didn't.

John Hawkes ● 2562d

Mr Hawke - It wouldn't be under your name, but mine. Shame, it was such a good comment.

Lucille Grant ● 2562d

Mr Hawkes. My understanding is that although Cummings has been vetted there were some documents he isn't being allowed access to. I've not looked into specific dates but wouldn't Corbyn and Cummings have been there at different times when different regimes were in power?

Michael Ixer ● 2562d

David I was so shocked at this.  Never minded JRM, thought he was a decent chap, nothing wrong with being rich and having a good education, but he made a very serious faux pas in what he said recently about Grenfell.  And then this idiot Bridgen compounded it by saying all these things.  I actually felt sick and I am a Tory voter.  For the very first time I felt they really do not understand the "common" man and woman, no matter how well they do in life.

Bunny Payne ● 2562d

It is an absolutely amazing and fabulous comment!

Ivonne Holliday ● 2562d

Bunny, many of us realised this the first hundred or so times. I am glad the scales have fallen from your eyes.

Sean Hodges ● 2562d

What if the fire was above your level and everyone evacuated, blocking the stair ,preventing LBF reaching the fire, then this may put others in danger.Or if there was a stampede on the stair case etc. The criticism of LFB was not changing policy when circumstances changed and not preparing for an evacuation.

Ed Robinson ● 2562d

JRM is an exceptionally clever chap.I'm trying to figure out how I could carry more than two kids down a dark smoke filled staircase with obstructions.I've come to the conclusion just one would be a great achievement.The guy must be a genius!

Ed Robinson ● 2562d

Yes Mr Robinson he must be for he has six children I believe (what a negative impact on climate change !).However as I said earlier, he would probably have relied a lot on Nanny - perhaps in this scenario running up and down 27 floors six times !

John Hawkes ● 2562d

Mr PayneDid you notice that when the rich and privileged member of the metropolitan elite that is Rees Mogg makes a deliberate and typically patronising and condescending comment against those he thinks inferior to him, the Conservative PR machine wheels in 'ordinary and common man of the people' Bridgen to defend him.Unfortunately Bridgen is genuinely thick and, inadvertently one hopes, says things that make the situation even worse !You couldn't make it up.

John Hawkes ● 2562d

Mr CarterGood to see that Mayor Sadiq Khan has unilaterally suspended Rydon the main contractor at Grenfell from the list of firms recommended by the Conservative Government to carry out further work on high rise construction in London.Doubtless this will be called out as 'pipsqueak' gesturing by certain posters to this Forum !

John Hawkes ● 2562d

One suspects we will see and hear very little more from JRM until the voting booths close.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2562d

I hadn't seen that, good news and well done Sadiq!

Richard Carter ● 2561d

Quite doing the rounds of Facebook "If JRM is so smart he can escape from a burning building how come hes still stuck in the Tory party?"

Michael Ixer ● 2561d

Is there something about the Conservative Party and their views on rape ?After the Welsh rape trial fiasco we now have a Conservative candidate Nick Conrad who said in 2014 radio exchange that women should keep ‘knickers on’ to avoid rape.Johnson says comments are appalling but is of course taking no steps to remove him as candidate.Let's assume the Conservatives are as against rape as any other Party, what they say and do regarding the matter points however to a very misogynistic attitude to women.But then who is their leader and look at his track record regarding his wives and girl friends !

John Hawkes ● 2561d

Now it looks like Johnson may not be sure about what's in his own Brexit agreement. Or else the DUP have got it completely wrong. Although, whatever I might think about new views, I do think Arlene Foster is competent at what she does.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/08/boris-johnson-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-gb-wont-be-checked-brexit

Michael Ixer ● 2560d