Forum Topic

Leaders debate

Jeremy Corbyn was really good in the debate; on top of the detail, coherent, articulate and polite. Boris was a disaster, lying, shifty, wriggling etc. (I thought he was supposed to be good at this! He’s rubbish.)Can’t see the point of the Lib-dems. Are they just Tory-Lites for people who want to inflict the pain without the shame?Nicola Sturgeon as competent and capable as ever.Loved the audience; good questions delivered with passion. The UK deserves, at the very least, competent, capable, compassionate and trustworthy politicians, hope WE get what we deserve.

Paul Doorly ● 2545d34 Comments

Oh, and because you’re worth it, and because this election really matters, make sure you are registered to vote. The deadline to register is the 26th. November, it only takes a few minutes.Also, please encourage your partner, granny, father, kid, friend, cousin, drinking buddy, neighbour etc etc etc to do the same.If they ask ‘why should I bother’...1) The NHS2) The environment3) Housing4) Education5) Employment6) Security and policing.7) ,,,,,,,,,,,oh, and Brexit.

Paul Doorly ● 2545d

If someone says they won't vote because they "hate politics", or "they're all the same", or "it won't make any difference" I usually start discussing what currently annoys them about the country and the way it's run. Gradually introduce the idea that it is the way it is because other people made political decisions they don't agree with. Moan about crime ; vote for a party that plans changes you think will help. Moan about the NHS ; vote for whoever you think will improve it.Then you can raise the idea of critically appraising manifesto promises. Lying & exaggerating works (up to  a point), so it will of course happen Just don't throw your hands up and let others choose for you — then you really have no right to complain!

Sean Hodges ● 2545d

The audience were the stars in this debate which was a much better format than the ITV Boris v Jezza affair. We got to see all four of them taking tough questions and thinking on their feet.  Sturgeon is clearly the most accomplished. Just a pity she wants to break up the UK. As for the other three most press commentaries have been predictably biased. I can see plenty to criticise in all three of the others. I wonder how many minds were changed by last night.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2545d

Last night yet again the BBC fail to adjudicate in a fair manner.Interruptions:Corbyn 11Sturgeon 15Swinson 17Johnson 45Summed up when Johnson was criticising Labours economic policy, Bruce interrupted Johnson and said 'we want to hear your plan PM!'Boris said 'sure, I will tell you my plan'Bruce replied 'sorry, we have to move on.'You couldn't make it up!Let's stop funding this bias left wing organisation with taxpayers money!

Paul Game ● 2545d

I possibly shouldn't comment as I couldn't watch the debate because of a prior engagement but did Corbyn possibly have fewer interruptions as he stayed on subject and answered thee questions? From the example you quote, Paul, it sounds like Johnson deviated from answering the question; that is, rather than explaining what his plan was her wasted his time criticising Corbyn instead? 

Michael Ixer ● 2545d

I bet Johnson’s relieved someone’s got his back. The poor chap really is up against it. Nasty, nasty Auntie!!

Freddie Francis ● 2545d

@PaulGame - there you go again, blaming the messenger because you didn’t like the message, and can’t counter the criticisms of Johnson’s terrible performance. PS: Why didn’t Fiona Bruce insist he give a coherent answer on why he hasn’t released the Russian report. Is it because so many oligarchs have donated to the Tory party?Does anyone know if there is a tactical voting site which puts the LibDems (revoke if elected as the government, referendum if a minority party) and Labour (negotiate a new deal, referendum, Leader/PM neutral) on the same side. I’d still like some clear guidance on whether to vote LibDem or Labour in Putney.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2545d

As far as I can see, vote Labour in Putney, they came very close the last time. For those in Richmond, I’d say the gLib Dems have the best chance.

Paul Doorly ● 2545d

The question is will the liberals go into coalition with the Tories again?And if they do how long will it be before revoke is traded away?

Ed Robinson ● 2545d

Mr GameJohnson was probably 'interrupted' (or challenged) because he tends to lie more than anyone else.I think the most revealing challenge made by Bruce was over the question to Johnson about the racism he consistently showed in his journalism.The question started on his insult about women in burkas looking like letter boxes and bank robbers, for which he refused to apologise, said it was not racist and that he has never expressed racist views.Bruce interrupted (pointed out) that he had made a number of offensive comments: "There's the Muslim women going around looking like letter boxes, you referred to tribal warriors with watermelon smiles, and flag-waving piccaninnies and just to get another demographic in tank topped bum boys".Be honest Mr Game: either Johnson is racist and homophobic, or he is not but will happily give the impression he is in order to satisfy his racist and homophobic readership and warrant the hundreds of thousands he is paid by his publishers so to do.Which is it ?And are you happy that in any circumstances these are the views and comment we expect from our Prime Minister ?As for the BBC bias, I think Johnson got equally tough (or in your opinion I guess unfair) treatment from ITV's Julie Etchingham in the head to head with Corbyn.And if you think the BBC biased watch Sky News owned by Rupert Murdoch.Here you might expect greater sympathy for the great Conservative liar but I have to say I find no difference in their attitude an approach compared to the BBC.Honest journalism should and will always call liars and charlatans to account.

John Hawkes ● 2545d

"Interruptions:Corbyn 11Sturgeon 15Swinson 17Johnson 45"So are you in favour of levelling interruptions up or levelling them down? Is there a fair number? Say, 22?

David Ainsworth ● 2545d

When the awards are handed out for the most one-eyed contributor to this forum, the runaway winner will be ... guess who! The audience for the leaders debate was pretty evenhanded in its pointed questioning of the four party leaders and the programme was the better for it.  If one of the four got more interruptions then look at how he skirted round straight answers to too many of the questions.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2545d

The Lib Dems are definitely ready to prop up the Tories again. Ed Davey said as much on the Andrew Neil show. He has a fanciful notion that the Conservatives can be talked around to a second referendum.

Matthew Tiller ● 2545d

@Paul Dooley 12.15"As far as I can see, vote Labour in Putney, they came very close the last time. For those in Richmond, I’d say the gLib Dems have the best chance."Hi Paul. I can't see Putney going Labour in a GE. It's an affluent area and Corbyn's Marxist agenda will not resonate with the wealthy. Was "gLib Dems" a typo or is it your opinion of the party?

Sue Hammond ● 2545d

This remain bias forum is still living in la-la land.You couldn't make it up!Whatever makes you happy I guess.The upcoming election will bring you all back down to planet earth as Boris will easily win a sizeable majority.Like Brexit it will prove you are all out of touch with the country.Cheers guys and girls, keep dreaming and enjoy fantasy land whilst it still exists, as it won't be much longer now :-)

Paul Game ● 2545d

@Sue Hammond 13.50Hi Sue, Just a small point, it’s Doorly, no ‘e’. No big deal, lots of people try to slip in an ‘e’ when I’m not looking!Anyway, I think there’s lots of reasons why people here would vote for Labour:1) Protect the NHS2) Invest heavily in a green economy with all the opportunities and benefits that would bring.3) Invest heavily in affordable housing.4) Make education affordable so that students are not saddled with enormous and dispiriting debt.5) Ensure that tax is paid by all, including the very rich.Etc etc. Lots there for all of us to get excited about.As regards the Lib Dem’s, I’m afraid I don’t trust them and can’t see the point of them. As I said, they seem like Tory-lites, happy to prop up austerity, happy to concede fully on student fees etc. The are not trustworthy as far as I am concerned, so yes, they are the gLib Dens (or Fib Dems).

Paul Doorly ● 2545d

No need to scratch your heads wondering why you are so out of touch with public opinion.It's an elitist thing about always thinking you are right and not understanding what life is like for the working class.Try watching Rich kids go skint and see how the other half live.

Paul Game ● 2545d

No PPS?

Freddie Francis ● 2545d

@PaulGame. I am not out of touch with public opinion. I am not elitist. I have worked all my life from the time I left school at 17. You are showing your ignorance by ranting on about everyone who disagrees with you being anti-democratic.It is about time our out-of-date first past the post system which distorts the results of every election was reformed. Putting normal party allegiance aside a majority of people in the constituency of Putney want to remain in the EU. The Labour party offers us a chance to choose between a specific exit deal or to remain. I can’t see anything anti-democratic in that.Nick

Nicholas Evans ● 2545d

"It's an elitist thing about always thinking you are right and not understanding what life is like for the working class."Well, you are doubly-blessed to be able to live in the Putney area and yet be so wonderfully capable of such uncorrupted understanding and broad sympathy.

David Ainsworth ● 2545d

I spent part of the afternoon out on the high street giving out leaflets for the green party, i'd say it was a fairly even split between people telling me they will vote Labour or Lib Dem lol.Only one person told me they were a Tory voter but i'd already guessed because of his bright red trousers.

Matt Palmer ● 2545d

Paul, As I understand it Boris proposal is just the withdrawal agreement.This Brexit thing will go on for years.My personal preference is a compromise, perhaps a Noway type deal that could be done very quickly.The devil will be in the detail as ever and since Boris doesn’t do detail what ever he says is worthless.Has anyone actually read the Boris Brexit proposal?I mean the actual document not someone else’s view of it!

Ed Robinson ● 2545d

A Noway type deal sounds like a plan!I’ve no idea what Boris’ deal is because he ran off to call a general election when mp’s asked for some time to debate it. I do know it’s not ‘oven-ready’ though, even if you pop it in the microwave on gas mark 7!

Paul Doorly ● 2545d

@Nick 15.12I know you are a passionate Labour supporter Nick but they will not win the Putney seat. Corbyn's latest Brexit-neutral statement is just a further attempt at him sitting on the fence. We all know that in his heart Corbyn is a Leaver but cannot say so because of pressure from within his party. His current stance will not tempt many Putney voters, and his Marxist tendencies will absolutely repel most of them. Changing the Leader is the Party's best hope for its future.I totally agree about the reform of our outdated and unfair political system. PR is the only way for the future and achieving this is Farage's other main aim. It is an important part of his Contract With The People, aka manifesto.

Sue Hammond ● 2545d

"The upcoming election will bring you all back down to planet earth as Boris will easily win a sizeable majority."You may well be right. If Johnson wins and it all goes well, then I shall be happy and admit that I was wrong. If he wins and it all goes pearshaped, then I shall be happy too. What fun we shall have!

David Ainsworth ● 2545d

@ Sue HammondYou say "I can't see Putney going Labour in a GE. It's an affluent area..."In the 2017 election Putney was equally affluent and some 19,125 Putney residents voted Labour - Greening won by a slim 1,554 votesThe idea of paying more (or less) tax won't influence the way I vote - if I do pay more, then so be it.  Tony Coleman was an excellent MP when he represented Putney from 1997 to 2005 - and Labour. 

John Cameron ● 2545d

Yes John but Labour's policies were not as drastic in 2017.

Sue Hammond ● 2545d

I agree with you Jonathan, the audience was absolutely brilliant.  So was Fiona Bruce by the way.I too thought Nicola Sturgeon stood out miles ahead of the other three.  I am not too sure she wants to break the UK up.  I believe it is more frustration at Westminster treating Scotland as spoilt brats instead of equals, don't you think?Did I change my mind last night?  I do not think so.  The performance by the PM was so appalling that it is a no-no for the conservatives (and I was a conservative voter till 2017). Of the other two, I prefer one but will wait to see how things unravel closer to the election.  There is a great chance of voting for an independent candidate if there is one.

Ivonne Holliday ● 2545d

Putney an affluent area...I think people are confusing Putney Constituency with Putney town.I think many areas need investment in infrastructure, education and skills.Looking at the demographics I see no reason to suggest why it would not go Labour.It be interesting to see what specifically people don’t like about the 2019 Manifesto compared to the 2017 one.I’m going to try and read it tonight.

Ed Robinson ● 2545d

@Sue - I'm not so sure Labour won't win Putney.  As you know I'm no supporter of Corbyn but the demographic in Putney has been changing over the past few years and I think younger people here will vote Labour.

Lucille Grant ● 2545d

@Lucille 18.47Hi Lucille. You might be proved right but I hope not. I do hope that the young voters will look past Corbyn's pledges of free this and that and realise that his promises would virtually bankrupt the country, and will not come to fruition. They should remember his pledge in the 2017 GE manifesto to write off student debts, and even look at historic ones. He had to backtrack on that when it was pointed out that it would cost the exchequer £76 billion. It's very easy to promise freebies when a party isn't in power. I still think the LibDems will win in Putney.

Sue Hammond ● 2545d

I'd be wary of abandoning our first past the post system, for if our general election was organised on the same basis as the recent EU elections we'd have upwards of 400 Brexit MPs in Parliament.

Peter Evans ● 2544d

@Sue. It's not necessarily Corbyn's financial statements of "giveaways" that many atteacts many younger people. Young people aren't stupid. Many will have been taught to be honesty by their parents: it's obvious Johnson is a chronic fibber, one may dislike Corbyn's proposals but he's quite open and honest about his left wing ideals and idears; additionally, he aligns with many  of their views - he's a long time veggie,  he's  green and cycles a lot and generally supports the underdog and sticks by his principles even if it causes him difficulties. Too many factors to predict outcome in a FPTP voting system. 

Michael Ixer ● 2544d

BUMP

Stephen Walker ● 2539d