Forum Topic

Matt Hancock

I know that Matt Hancock is taking flak these last few weeks, and I am obviously of a different persuasion, but he features pretty centrally in probably my favourite photo from the Commons, so I thought that I should post it now while I remember:-https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/19/jeremy-corbyn-accused-of-calling-theresa-may-a-stupid-woman#img-1And whatever else one thinks of him, he is there facing the questions very regularly, and he himself has been ill with Coronavirus too.

David Ainsworth ● 2380d44 Comments

The tone was appropriate and so were the questions that she asked.It's his tone that needs addressing.I'm was not a fan of Mrs Thatcher - but you can't help feeling that things have gone backwards in Parliament.I think we are incredibly lucky to have a local MP that is also a A&E Doctor.

Ed Robinson ● 2380d

Hancock is obviously under pressure, and he's one of the more competent - or rather, least incompetent - ministers (thank goodness we don't have Priti Patel in Health!), but even so his response to a perfectly reasonable question that was carefully put, was very poor:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-rosena-allin-khan-matt-hancock-testing-doctor-a9500041.html

Richard Carter ● 2380d

They would be under less pressure if they were open and honest.Not admitting mistakes has lead us full circle with huge costs in lives and the economy.

Ed Robinson ● 2380d

Good article by John Crace today:-https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/05/matt-hancocks-career-continues-to-win-the-battle-with-his-conscience"Matt Hancock's career continues to win the battle with his conscience."

David Ainsworth ● 2380d

And now:-"Hancock suggests Prof Ferguson's lockdown breach could be matter for police" (Guardian today). Lucky for Boris Johnson that his risky behaviour, which may have led to his life-threatening infection, occurred before the law was brought in.https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-johnson-boasted-of-shaking-hands-with-coronavirus-patients-on-same-day-officials-urged-ban-new-documents-show

David Ainsworth ● 2380d

Interesting, David. I'm sure Johnson has learnt his lesson now. I'm not sure Hancock has read his government's own regulations. Ferguson didn't make an unnecessary journey or leave his house in the events reported in the Telegraph. As far as I can see  it was his friend who left her household and made an unnecessary journey. (I'm assuming it doesn't count as daily exercise.) Perhaps he wasn't adhering to the spirit of the guidance but that's not an offence, although stupid. Looks like someone in government who isn't keen on Ferguson tipped off Johnson's chums at the Telegraph as it provided a nice distraction from the testing and PPE debacles. 

Michael Ixer ● 2379d

I guess the Telegraph and its supporters wanted to undermine the Imperial College scientist to cast doubt on his analysis which precipitated the government into lockdown mode - which certain business interests are against. How long have they known about the affair and the woman's name? Did they stake out his home?  Did this happen recently or did they sit on the story until they needed a good 'dead cat' distraction from the latest death toll and the rest of the shambles? Meanwhile, a government minister and his family drives between his three houses and visits his parents and he's still in a job.

Peter Evans ● 2379d

Fortunately for him it ended up as just another 24 hour story of someone saying “do as I say not as I do”. The government failures are already apparent to all in their complacent handling of this crisis and I am fairly sure even their cheerleaders will eventually turn on them as the death toll rises and the economic consequences become ever more huge.  International comparisons already look ever more unflattering (the US apart). They can’t hide from this and Johnson can’t hide at all. His cabinet, his decisions, his dithering. One must hope his alarming brush with his Maker will change his approach but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2379d

Turns out the 'Professor Lockdown' story was a month old but was saved up for this concerted 'dead cat' attack by several newspapers and others who want to undermine the science. I guess their thinking is that if they pin the blame for the present shambles on the 'mad scientists', then Johnson will come out of it OK because he was being 'guided' by them.

Peter Evans ● 2378d

The messaging from the science community that they advise while ministers decide is loud and clear. Like a lot of messaging people will only hear what they want to hear. They are however determined not to be the fall guys in all this. The official enquiry will be very interesting when it comes along.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2378d

Came in from clapping to watch the coverage on Sky.  Sir Kier was featured. He stopped applauding seemed to  ask someone off camera if they had got what they need. Hmm........

Robert Wheeler ● 2378d

The fact is Professor Ferguson and his team will still be carrying on their research and analysis at Imperial College, and I'm sure that will still be published and available for SAGE to use. If Ferguson isn't part if SAGE he may be able to speak more freely on the actions taken? It would be interesting to know if the scientific advice in Germany is similar to that in the UK.  I suspect as a scientist Merkel has a more interactive conversation with her advisers whereas Johnson  just follows it ... oh  we need to test: let's just splatter loads of testing kits everywhere; oh, no one told us to send them to where the people were who wanted to be tested. No use having capacity if there's no one their to use it.

Michael Ixer ● 2378d

Are you saying that he did not do the full minute of clapping?No wonder that Twitter is in uproar!

David Ainsworth ● 2378d

With testing you would expect a range of measures (KPIs) to be reported, including the turnaround time (time between the test was taken and the result communicated to the person).There are some reports of results taking weeks.Just heard that they have 5000 traces which is simply not enough.UK, sorry England & Wales playing matchup months later.Turns out the legal framework between Scotland and England & Wales was missing too. Provision hadn't been made to pass test result in Scotland the the appropriate devolved scottish authority. Resolves after almost a month. You couldn't make it up!

Ed Robinson ● 2378d

It's good that someone else is now apparently taking responsibility of the PPE problems.  From a health service POV you just wouldn't want to start from here.  With so many cuts, privatisations and reductions of services including the shortages of staff even with the greatest resolve it is going to be harder to mobilise and reconnect the fragments.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/what-was-exercise-cygnus-and-what-did-it-find

Philippa Bond ● 2378d

PPE is a much simpler subject compared to test, trace and isolate.I shall have to see if there was anything in the emergency legislation around testing and data privacy. Perhaps it may not have been included because the UK wasn't going to go down the test, trace route.I'm the absence if emergency legislation one would assume normal data protection rules apply. Added to the fact that Scotland has it's own legal and health systems you can see how complicated it can be when a third party carries out the tests and then is requested to pass data to other organisations.I would like to see a more detailed report into the actual issues and how they were resolved eventually.I'm not suggesting that this is a easy to get right but one would have thought with a pandemic and the recent exercise of how the UK would deal with one that sharing information about such tests must have been discussed. Probably an assumption that it was, perhaps the GDPR changes just weren't considered.

Ed Robinson ● 2378d

This selectively cut story about Starmer will survive now, despite the actual cameraman having written what really was happening and debunking the Twitter fake outrage. I should have thought that Starmer would have seen this sort of thing coming. He saw how it was done to Corbyn.

David Ainsworth ● 2378d

Test trace and isolate - just the testing for a start is a problem.  The lack of tests just for medical and care staff and those already in hospital make the lockdown so important.  Keeping those medical and care staff as safe as possible from getting it, carrying it and infecting those at work, at home and in the larger community is crucial.  When they are working under stress to start off with because of low and lack of staffing there are further risks of working when you should or should be still isolating.

Philippa Bond ● 2377d

And after testing, tracing contacts is another serious issue. The numbers of public health staff (community nurses, health visitors etc) have been hugely cut in the last 10 years of austerity - and they would have been the obvious basis for assembling the teams to do the tracing. Another example of the foolish short-sightedness of Osborne's policy of cutting.

Richard Carter ● 2377d

Are those surrounding President Trump being tested every day?  That's what it looks like.  The tests aren't that accurate so you can't be sure just because you've had a test - just more sure than if you haven't. Giving blood from recovered patients to those who are ill looks interesting.  I thought this was an established practice but it seems to have taken quite a time.

Philippa Bond ● 2377d

Completely agree Richard.I was reading up on the science behind the app (not the technology) as that is where the attention has now gone.The consensus from countries that are on top of this is that apps are a distraction. Its community tracing that will be needed and best done by the people you just mentioned.

Ed Robinson ● 2377d

Ed,Richard. Agree with you points about the tracing and it goes far beyond any technology aspects . However, with Baroness Harding (of Talk Talk fame) now in charge of the app, irrespective of privacy issues raised by people such as the Open Rights Group, I'm not sure many of us will be confident about installing the app ...https://www.digitalhealth.net/2020/05/baroness-dido-harding-appointed-to-lead-nhs-covid-19-app/

Michael Ixer ● 2377d

Will install the app. In a day when your phone already tracks every where you go and those on Facebook offer all sorts of information willingly dont see a major problem with this app if it helps as part of the puzzle. See no point in pointing fingers about the past. Surely nows the time to move forward and look back when its over. Wasted energy looking back at this moment in time.

Andy Pike ● 2377d

Andy. I sort of agree with you  one could argue given the experiences she went through at Talk Talk she's more well qualified than many. However,  from a PR confidence point of view I'm not convinced she's a good choice - just from viewing comments on Facebook and (from industry professionals) on LinkedIn. Remember, the government want people to have confidence in the app so they get maximum coverage. Most serious complaints aren't about the current obviously beneficial use but possibly future scope creep in the use of collected data. 

Michael Ixer ● 2377d

Indeed. Stronger assurances are needed that the data will be used for current purposes only and destroyed at some fixed future point.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2376d

It's very hard to destroy data - it's a bit like energy except it replicates and mutates like a virus!

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

Presumably none of you Bank on line,subscribe to Facebook,use Google maps etc etc

Andy Pike ● 2376d

Andy I actually hold the opposite view.I think an app with location and time data is the way to go so yes google and apple are best placed. Places that have good tracing use geo location, CCTV, electronic payments, anything they can get.Using Bluetooth to estimate distance and then applying an arbitrary distance/duration rule, which hasn't even been documented seems a gimmick to me!

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

Yes, Andy. That's certainly one that needs the can opener. (To let the worms out ...) I don't generally put detailed health data into Google or Facebook or if I do it would be something that's not a secret like I've suffered from sciatica in the past. What Google and Facebook can do is limited by the GDPR, etc (or is at present). At the moment I don't think the UK government has the capacity to use the data gathered by the NHS app for anything other than the stated purpose, and they might struggle with that. Who knows what might happen in the future. I doubt Facebook will break down my front door because of my cat pictures or Google get excited by my visit to a vegan cafe (other than to recommend others). However, who knows what the future holds. Look at the surveillance in China and what happens to individuals there. It's not necessarily the individual data set itself, what other data could it be combined with and used against individuals. Ed's right, data goes viral, or has done - but that's the whole point in the GDPR, to tame the morass of data being kept. Unfortunately, although there's the 2018 DPA, we lose the protection of the GDPR at the end of the transition period and Google are already planning to move UK users' data to the US ... still at least the NSA might  have a copy of that cat picture when I accidentally delete it ... freedom requires vigilance and data is a good way of controlling people. Ask the Chinese ...

Michael Ixer ● 2376d

"freedom requires vigilance and data is a good way of controlling people. Ask the Chinese ..."Says the person still in lockdown:)Sorry my sense of humour.

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

Well if your comparing the UK to China then no point in trying to have a sensible debate.

Andy Pike ● 2376d

Ed. Ha, ha.Touché! But there is a serious point there. It's why the opposition were keen for regular reviews to be put into the emergency legislation. In general, most police forces have taken a light touch in enforcement. The excesses like telling people they should be sitting in their front garden have been widely reported. 

Michael Ixer ● 2376d

Andy. China is obviously an extreme. During economic recession it didn't take long for some countries to go from democracies to vicious dictatorships; look at the 1930s, only yesterday was the 75th anniversary of VE day. We could well be entering one of the worst economic positions  in the next few months, years, and China could become one of - if not the leading - economy. I'm just saying proceed with caution and remain vigilant. I'm not saying don't give your data to the app but many are requesting that there should be additional safeguards, I don't see any issue with that? And, as Ed says, Google and Apple might be able to write a better app although I believe they're not collecting all the data the NHS wants. But Ireland might be interesting with the north and aoutgh using different apps.On a point I didn't answer, I use online banking but my bank has my data anyway, and it's regulated by the FCA and the ICO regarding data confidentiality and privacy. 

Michael Ixer ● 2376d

It is interesting that people are more willing to give up their physical freedom than giving up their data.The government could probably pay people huge amounts for all their location, health and contact data rather than extending lockdown and trashing the economy further.

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

Ed. I'm not sure it's quite the same. People are accepting lockdown on the basis it's a temporary measure that will help keep them and their family and friends safe - and there is still some freedom of movement. Once data has been provided it's difficult to claw back unless, as Jonathan said earlier, there's legislation saying it must be deleted. As you notes, once data is in the wild it can go viral unless there's strict controls backed up by legislation and independent audits, and even then ...

Michael Ixer ● 2376d

Turns out tests are being flown to the US.This will impact turnaround, I'm not sure about the impact on the samples.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/09/lab-issues-force-government-fly-50000-coronavirus-tests-us/

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

A summary of the joijnt parliamentary human rights committee on the NHS app ...https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252482805/Contact-tracing-app-fails-to-protect-privacy-and-human-rights

Michael Ixer ● 2376d

Michael I think the fact they haven't detailed what distance/duration algorithm they are using is of more important.Requirements should take precedence over any solution. The algorithm is crucial if it's to be used for alerting.It looks like it will rank encounters by distance/duration. With one website claiming they are going to use the app to determine the correct distance/duration criteria!So looks like more of a data capture tool being mispackaged in my opinion.

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

When this lousy war is over, won't this app be useful for suspicious husbands and wives?

David Ainsworth ● 2376d

"When this lousy war is over, won't this app be useful for suspicious husbands and wives?"Most countries use within 1.5m for 15 minutes.I was on the tube honest!

Ed Robinson ● 2376d

Pretty good euphemism.

David Ainsworth ● 2376d

Ed. I'd missed that. I understood the source code for the app had been published as I saw a LinkedIn posting from a pentest company saying some of their staff had viewed the code and said from what they could see the code did what was claimed. If the algorithm was missing I'm slightly surprised that wasn't noted. My comment on the poist was whether the compiled object code in the app matched the source code ... no one's commented on that yet ...Still, the IC modelling code published on GitHub has been panned by an anonymous Google software development employee ... although the cynic in me suspects that's immaterial as the lockdowns appears to be reducing transmission on the UK and elsewhere ... we're coming back to the fact that the real reason software fails is bad management ... but better not go too far off topic  

Michael Ixer ● 2376d

Richard Carter ● 2375d

Brilliant

Andy Pike ● 2375d