Forum Topic

Does anyone understand the new rules on how to deal with Covid-19@

I don't - and nor, apparently, does the de facto deputy prime minister, Dominic Raab, who managed to contradict himself in three separate interviews today:https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/11/dominic-raabs-three-lockdown-interviews-which-sparked-confusion-12684695/If even the government are completely at sea, how are the rest of us supposed to act? No wonder we are the worst-performing country on this, "led" by a ship of fools.

Richard Carter ● 2375d49 Comments

Yes. Go out as much as you want. Sit on benches / in park. Be 2m apart at all times. Can see one other family member in public space if 2m apart. Driving is allowed.

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2375d

"Go out as much as you want. Sit on benches / in park. Be 2m apart at all times. Can see one other family member in public space if 2m apart. Driving is allowed."That's from Wednesday not today (assuming it doesnt change).Unless of course Wednesday is the new Monday which would explain everything!Anyway guidelines weren't updated when I last checked and people/employers should follow the guidelines!

Ed Robinson ● 2375d

Yes  Use your common sense and stay safe.  I think everyone has gone 'loopy'  trying to find fault with every single statement  That's not to say that isn't easy.

Barbara Shillabeer ● 2375d

For those, including cabinet ministers that  are confused, today is Monday!"And from this Wednesday, we want to encourage people to take more and even unlimited amounts of outdoor exercise.You can sit in the sun in your local park, you can drive to other destinations, you can even play sports but only with members of your own household."https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-address-to-the-nation-on-coronavirus-10-may-2020

Ed Robinson ● 2375d

Sorry I forgot the Wednesday part when I wrote it ha

Gabrielle O'Mahoney ● 2375d

Doesn't seem to be as straightforward as people have implied: according to the Times, "Lockdown update: Ministers accused of sowing confusion over exit plan - No 10 backtracks on ‘go to work’ statement."

Richard Carter ● 2374d

Richard it is perfectly clear that the government wanted to be unclear!

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Well said Barbara. Those that want to find fault will always do so. Tends to show them in a poor light.It is all pretty clear if you are prepared to use your intelligence.Boris set out a roadmap as he had been requested to. If you seek directions on a google roadmap it gives you your route and also any roadworks that may delay your arrival. On route it will divert you if there has been an accident or if you hit a jam you may have to sit and be patient. The map does not detail how you should drive, it assumes you gave a certain intelligence regarding driving and are able to steer your vehicle,stay within the lanes and abide by the speed limit all pretty basic stuff. That's what was asked for thats what we got.What we then get is the dopey folk like the Weston super mare hotelier who said he gave her no certainty. But he did he said it was certain she would not be open before 1st July.what did she expect? Him to say that at 2.35 on a given date in the future she could ooen? What happens then if we have to divert cos of a spike? She no doubt claims he misled her. Be ready for another load of dopey questions on this afternoons Corona a update from the press aimed at tripping up rather than adding a positive to the nations understanding.Stay alert,use your brain stay safe.

Andy Pike ● 2374d

I'm not surprised Raab's confused; as I heard it announced: if one person goes out from household #1 they can meet only one other person from another household, say #2, but if two people from household #2 go out they can meet one person from household #1. An interesting non reversible function?

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

"It is all pretty clear if you are prepared to use your intelligence."Just a shame that there doesn't appear to be any common sense in the cabinet!If your going to pre record a speech why not do the guidelines at the same time.Looks like a Trump ploy to me.

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Well, I heard a Police Chief say on a Zoom call this morning that after the latest announcements it's likely the regulations will be unenforceable. How do they prove you're not meeting someone in the same household, going to work, shopping, etc;. ok, 50 people together in a park is obvious but policing anything else is just likely to annoy people and build up barriers for collaboration in the future. I didn't hear Johnson's speech last night as I was on another Zoom call but when I heard reports on TV and social media there was no real consistence on what he'd say unlike the original lockdown and stay at home. Some were obviously looking for issues but the CBI person didn't agree with a FB friend saying it was a reasonable speech ...  one had the message everyone should start work this morning and that wasn't the CBI ...

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

On a broader point, irrespective of whether the guidance is good bad clear, etc shouldn't the testtrack and trace programmer along with the new app and all the new people recruited for tracing be operational before people start opening up communiting and going back work in shared spaces? Or did I miss something?

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

It is very easy to find problems far more difficult to solve them.We have to take some responsibility ourselves. We should not be reliant on police enforcement for social distancing. We all know the common sense that saves lives. There will be those that push against any rule we cant change that.  But if is surely down to us all to try anx send out the right message rather than simply having a pop at those on power for whatever reason. I'm sure it couldnt be political,could it?

Andy Pike ● 2374d

@AndyThe voice of common sense and reason. I totally agree with both of your pragmatic posts. 👍🏻

Sue Hammond ● 2374d

Whatever the politics - this is emergency legislation which the police have to try and enforce.It's no good staying "We all know the common sense that saves lives" - if we wanted that we should have gone down the Swedish route.Either we obey the law or we do not. Cabinet members and other state officials have ignored the law without prosecution - we then expect young people to respect the law.I for one am in favour of removing the laws that we do no enforce but that is a different issue.I'm sure the Home Secretary will clarify the law as soon as she finished the flight quarantine guidelines, due for implementation at the beginning of June - which will never happen.

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Andy. It's true it's easier to pick holes than formulate a policy (been there) but given the time we've been in lockdown I'm surprised - disappointed?- that some aspects of yesterday's announcement weren't better thought through and presented better. Surely, consultations with industry bodies, unions, opposition parties and other UK nations were consulted to avoid surprises but that appeared not to be the case. (I mean i think they were consulted but still surprised.) For example going back "tomorrow" (this morning!) seemed to be stressed in the clips I saw; it would have been easy to say you can start going back from next Wednesday if your workplace is open when safety guidelines have been announced and your employer has worked out a safe environment and you've agreed a safe way of commuting - which sounds like a reality. How difficult is that? You're right, the majority of people will be sensible. However, the legislation must be enforceable as a significant number are selfish, and others will be coerced by unscrupulous employees, or many be tempted to takes risks. To be honest I would expect the dates to be flexible and change as feedback from cases and deaths increased or decrease in response to changes in policy. It seens to me he was trying to keep his far right paymasters happy with seemingly open up while not moving to fast against scientific advice.

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

You're being far too sensible Michael lol! Meanwhile Boris waffles on .. and .. on and .. on.

Lucille Grant ● 2374d

Don't know what is the problem I stood for I don't know how long in the cold today waiting halfway down Werter Rd to go into Sainsbury's. The queue never moved which is unusual you usually go in quick. It appeared they had a power cut. Nobody was moaning we all just stood there until it was our turn. I would not attempt to go on a bus or train at the moment, as long as you have food, it was when no food was available there was need to worry.

Barbara Stevens ● 2374d

Document just released here:https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Yes, downloaded it earlier but decided to watch Parliament instead. Seemed to have a lot of waffle at the beginning ...

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

Yeh don't that Starmer fella waffle on !

Andy Pike ● 2374d

Ha ha, Andy - I meant the start of the report!

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

"Yeh don't that Starmer fella waffle on !"Apparently he has the right tone!Give me the direct Doctor any day.

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

I appear to have picked up the New Zealand guidelines.The problem with NOT being a 'girly swat' is that you get caught out copying someone else's work!Thank you New Zealand for the plan!

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

I agree Michael with your views entirely.  The test, track and trace programme should ideally be up, tested and running. What surprised me no end last night was when Boris said, if you cannot work from home you can go back to work tomorrow, manufacturing and construction industries only I think.  He said this on a Sunday, at 7.00pm (even if recorded beforehand).  What time does give the employers to have the manufacturing workplace ready?  One would assume that, after some 5 weeks of it being closed, it would require a thorough cleaning at least, if not disinfecting too?  As for construction, if they are on building sites the problem would perhaps not be that bad, but if they are in offices for example? Also, if parents have children, how do you organize child care in such a short period of time?  Had he said go back to work a week on Monday, that would have been much better I think.  In addition, do not use public transport.  Very difficult for some people I would have thought.  No staggered starting times for the employees mentioned. If employers have the responsibility of providing PPE for employees, how can they procure it on a Sunday evening for Monday morning?   Fair enough, this morning Raab said Wednesday not today — even so..... Having no guidelines does not help much either.  Very sad state of affairs and regrettably, a very disunited Kingdom. 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2374d

Meanwhile, what is "Stay alert" supposed to mean? Alert for what? More contradictory government messages?

Richard Carter ● 2374d

I take it as a other sign that we’re returning to normality - all those who love the government are saying it’s the greatest speech since Churchill;  all those who hate the government are aghast with horror at the lack of clarity...meanwhile whilst the predictable political points scoring continues, the rest of us are simply applying some common sense and getting on with it.

Craig Fordham ● 2374d

Ah, thanks to Robert Jenrick, all confusion is now over: "‘Stay Alert’ Still Means ‘Stay At Home’, Says Communities Secretary."https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/staying-at-home-stay-alert-coronavirus-message-jenrick_uk_5eb7c3dac5b64711c0c94833Phew, I was worried there for a bit.

Richard Carter ● 2374d

"Common sense" sounds so easy and natural, but I don't think it's so easy in practice, not when the advice is so conflicting and contradictory.

Richard Carter ● 2374d

As long as New Zealand doesn't change their definitions on their web pages that we are referencing.I suggest we all familiarise ourselves with the New Zealand government web site.How times change..29 It is not OK to be in multiple household groups: if Household A merges with B, Household B cannot alsoelect to be in a group with Household C. This would create a chain that would allow the virus to spread widely30 The potential effects of this change on the rate of transmission are to be examined.31 https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-system/alert-level-3/32 This concept is explained in this ‘building your bubble’ explainer from the New Zealand Government:https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-novelcoronavirus-health-advice-general-public/managing-your-bubble-during-cov

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Perhaps we should just outsource our COVID strategy to New Zealand?

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

"Perhaps we should just outsource our COVID strategy to New Zealand?"Yes. We will still need someone to implement it.I hope we have sent New Zealand an official thank you.

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Unlikely. Someone might need a quiet word with some of the cabinet and point out they're no longer a colony 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2374d

On the plus side I believe Boris has an article prepared on facecoverings in enclosed public areas such as on public transport.

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland set to Stay Home. Sounds more like the World Cup finals.

Andy Pike ● 2374d

Stay Alert, the Country needs Lerts.

Barbara Stevens ● 2374d

Hello Craig, It is not about political points scoring, it is, as you say, common sense.  How can you announce on Sunday evening that manufacturing and construction industries  should commence work on Monday morning? 

Ivonne Holliday ● 2374d

Yes, we are all whānau here!

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

🤣🤣🤣

Richard Carter ● 2374d

Common sense is not surviving the morning interviews I see as people (including many Tory MP) do not understand the rules.The UK has adopted some of the New Zealand rules.But New Zealand had a hard lockdown - air passengers quarantined. Test, Trace Isolate now and during lockdown.Jacinda Ardern - has communicated clearly throughout to explain the rules and reasons behind them.Any one that says you just need common sense clearly hasn't read or understood the guidance - because a lot of it isn't common sense but does make scientific/social sense in stopping the spread.This is no different to a lazy pupil just copied one paragraph from the brightest kid in the class. The whole page now makes no sense!Unless we get well briefed people explaining this, together with action on quarantine on arrival and Test, Trace Isolate -  it will become just a paper exercise. A plan that no one is really following.

Ed Robinson ● 2374d

Johnson breezily says we should use "good solid British commonsense," whatever that means. Is common sense confined to the British, with lesser mortals not understanding the concept? I don't think so. More realistically, J K Rowling has tweeted "Is coronavirus sneaking around in a fake moustache and glasses? If we drop our guard, will it slip us a Mickey Finn? What the hell is 'stay alert' supposed to mean?" Exactly.

Richard Carter ● 2373d

Perhaps we could blend the two famous 1940s slogans into one:-"Careless coughs and sneezes cost lives"?

David Ainsworth ● 2373d

That's very good David! Might have to steal it :-)

Lucille Grant ● 2373d

Very good, David? Can I just extend it? "Careless coughs and sneezes costs lives from spread diseases." Or am I confusing the massage?

Michael Ixer ● 2373d

Fine. I guess that it is Open Source.

David Ainsworth ● 2373d

Extend away. Although personally I try and stick to K.I.S.S.(Nothing to do with popular music nor radio stations). (Just in case).

David Ainsworth ● 2373d

Thanks. I was trying to remember that one. Ha, and indeed, ha!

David Ainsworth ● 2373d

And perhaps another useful message ... https://flic.kr/p/2j1mWdh

Michael Ixer ● 2373d

Or hide in the fridge and carry on?

David Ainsworth ● 2373d