Forum Topic

Where does the North start?

A digression on another thread got us on to this subject. It’s worth a thread of its own, in my view and speaking as an exiled Mancunian. Southerners see anyone from north of Watford as northerners. ‘Twas ever thus. How do we re-educate those we live amongst?  So is Luton for example, located way north of Watford, in the North or not?  I think we should be told.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2181d21 Comments

Hi Jonathan, some questions for you. Is this thread really necessary? (tic)Why were you exiled?At what point do "Northerners" consider someone to be a "Southerner"?Why do we "Southerners" need "re-education"?

Adam Tripp ● 2181d

Jonathan, can I ask you, as you describe yourself as exiled Mancunian, if you intend to return to Manchester?  I am not in exile, I see myself as a Londoner now who has no intention of leaving.  I have been here 40 years this year. However, I am really proud of my Midland roots, we didn’t leave because we hated it, but we saw more opportunity down here, there was less chance for us to get on. Is being Northern, less to do with location these days and more a state of mind, especially after Brexit?

Martine Guy ● 2181d

Aren't north and south just relative terms? Are we really talking about the definition of "The North"  - which given a definition for "The Midlands" it would be north of in relative terms? But, yes, speaking as a person born in London anywhere north or Watford is northern 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2181d

It’s a long story and not a simple answer but I left the north when I went to Exeter university, then lived in Gloucestershire, had a period in London in the early-mid 70s followed by 12 years overseas. When I came back my job kept me in London. I was keen to get back up north but couldn’t find the right opening. So we stayed put in Putney, our daughter schooled locally and we have roots here. But I still feel like a displaced northerner rather than a genuine local. Maybe my footballing allegiances have something to do with it!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2181d

It's definitely relative: at university I had a friend from Durham who regarded another friend from Liverpool as a southern softy.Personally, I tend to think of the Thames as the frontier, though that does pose a slight difficulty when realising that  Southwark is further north than Fulham...

Richard Carter ● 2181d

The view from Manchester was clear. The south began in Stoke. Newcastle was a remote frozen wasteland where nobody could understand the locals. My own views have modified. My southern cousin, brought up in Epsom and Ewell, has lived in the northeast since she married and my Scottish wife has a very different perspective on all of us Sassenachs anyway. I still don’t like haggis!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2181d

Well, Luton certainly used to feel rather different to London, surrounded by some countryside (though of course retreating). Quite a bit of industry making stuff. Older terraces with different types of bricks. Large number of different Christian chapels and churches from around the country. Generalising from my particular experience, Luton had attracted workers from the North, thanks to the Depression, as Luton (like Reading/Slough?) had grown in the 30s, with firms making electrical domestic appliances, as well as cars. Far enough away then for London to feel like a distant and unknown place. Far enough away from London to avoid being badly Blitzed, although there were bad events. This is based on a particular period of time, with fading memories and half-facts, so it is like trying to grab a river really.

David Ainsworth ● 2181d

The re-education bit was tongue in cheek. There are a lot of inbuilt prejudices around though. My mother never liked southerners until a couple moved in next door and turned out to be normal human beings. When they arrived they both had suntans but that didn’t last!  Anyone with a suntan was regarded as very exotic.

Jonathan Callaway ● 2181d

by Richard's definition I'm a northern sympathiser as I'm a Chelsea supporter!

Adam Tripp ● 2181d

I grew up near the coast in Hampshire so as far as i'm concerned I live up north now!

Matt Palmer ● 2181d

The  North  starts  at  Regent' s  Park  as  any  reel Londoner  no

Duncan G Laird ● 2181d

I once went out with a lass from Camden Town.

David Ainsworth ● 2181d

Jonathan, you can get vegan haggis now. 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2181d

One of my mates from Wigan (would that be classed as the North? I'd say it was!) always refers to all Londoners as cockneys. I've tried explaining about Bow Bells but he just doesn't get it 🙂

Michael Ixer ● 2181d

Wigan is definitely in the north, pier and all, and your mate is right.  I know he is, I heard it at school!

Jonathan Callaway ● 2181d

I told my  children to take up places at Leeds Uni on the basis that might be,as it has turned out to be,their only experience of The North. They both have families  one in Sydney the other in Fulham.

Hugh Thompson ● 2180d

Anything north of the Thames is north England, that includes Fulham.When (rarely) I cross the river I can't understand the lingo, get used to the their currency and the time difference gives me jet lag.Funny things happen north of the Thames...it gives me the shudders just thinking about it :)

Simon Knight ● 2180d

Simon, good to have your comment on the Forum, as it made me laugh.

Martine Guy ● 2180d

If my comment made you laugh then my existence has at least served some (albeit small) purpose.But further to my post: Whenever I go north of the Thames the "Dueling Banjos" tune from Deliverance keeps playing in my head.

Simon Knight ● 2180d

Good Lord, where do you go?! Still, better than the "Squeal like a pig" scene, I suppose.

David Ainsworth ● 2180d

Squeal piggy squeal...and you'd better pray good.Great film.

Simon Knight ● 2179d